[NL2-NL10] NL4 JT steal

    • Letsdothisish
      Letsdothisish
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.02.2009 Posts: 995
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.02/$0.04 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Known players:
      CO (Hero):
      $4.98
      BU:
      $4.17
      SB:
      $4.81
      BB:
      $1.94
      MP2:
      $4.42
      MP3:
      $3.79


      Preflop: Hero is CO with T, J.
      2 folds, Hero raises to $0.12, BU folds, SB calls $0.10, BB folds.

      Flop: ($0.28) T, 9, 7 (2 players)
      SB bets $0.12, Hero raises to $0.48, SB raises to $0.84, Hero calls $0.36.

      Turn: ($1.96) 5 (2 players)
      SB bets $0.44, Hero calls $0.44.

      River: ($2.84) J (2 players)
      SB bets $0.32, Hero calls $0.32.

      Final Pot: $3.48.

      Results follow:

      Hero shows two pairs, jacks and tens(Tc Jh).
      SB shows high card king(6c Kc).

      Hero wins with two pairs, jacks and tens(Tc Jh).

      Villain is 45/7/2.9/114 hands

      Donkbets into me so I decide to raise. The min3bet seems tricky, either is a total bluf but also could be a monster. But since he donkbetted me I decided it couldn't be a monster since he would have slowplayed that.

      Same goes with the turn/river, could mean he's extracting value, or could mean he's bluffing cheaply. Because I still have odds I decide to flat his barrels.

      Overall question: min3bets after donkbets bluffs or good hands? I've decided for myself fish players usually do this with pure air, but good players could donkbet and 3bet for value and protection on this drawheavy board. Seems reasonable?
  • 5 replies
    • ragney
      ragney
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      Originally posted by rvvrecke
      Overall question: min3bets after donkbets bluffs or good hands? I've decided for myself fish players usually do this with pure air, but good players could donkbet and 3bet for value and protection on this drawheavy board. Seems reasonable?
      Depends on villian. Against unknown I'd fold flop since its too risky. If you never seen his play before I would fold flop as well. I would take consideration about his WTS and his postflop play quickly on poker software before I take any action.

      And donk is usually weak. From a fish its mostly a mid pair or top pair with low kicker. From the regulars, it can vary, but often its more like a semi bluff.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello rvvrecke,

      Actually for just the reason that we have showdown value and I see him bluffing this kind of spots pretty often but I still want him to continue with his bluffs, I'd rather just Call it and let him continue his bluffs on further streets. Otherwise this is exactly the spot where I don't want to put myself, as he did 3bet us, I'd rather say we fold this hand unless we have a good reason to continue. As played turn & river are fine for the given odds.

      Best regards.
    • Letsdothisish
      Letsdothisish
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.02.2009 Posts: 995
      Originally posted by veriz
      Hello rvvrecke,

      Actually for just the reason that we have showdown value and I see him bluffing this kind of spots pretty often but I still want him to continue with his bluffs, I'd rather just Call it and let him continue his bluffs on further streets. Otherwise this is exactly the spot where I don't want to put myself, as he did 3bet us, I'd rather say we fold this hand unless we have a good reason to continue. As played turn & river are fine for the given odds.

      Best regards.
      Isn't it reasonable to raise the flop here since I don't want to see any :heart: /6/J to pick it up then and there? And aren't I getting the odds to call the min 3bet? Surely if he had 3betted me decently I would have folded but the odds seemed too good for me.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by rvvrecke
      Originally posted by veriz
      Hello rvvrecke,

      Actually for just the reason that we have showdown value and I see him bluffing this kind of spots pretty often but I still want him to continue with his bluffs, I'd rather just Call it and let him continue his bluffs on further streets. Otherwise this is exactly the spot where I don't want to put myself, as he did 3bet us, I'd rather say we fold this hand unless we have a good reason to continue. As played turn & river are fine for the given odds.

      Best regards.
      Isn't it reasonable to raise the flop here since I don't want to see any :heart: /6/J to pick it up then and there? And aren't I getting the odds to call the min 3bet? Surely if he had 3betted me decently I would have folded but the odds seemed too good for me.
      The problem is just what happened, we actually turned our hand into bluff, since I'd rather just fold it on flop for the reason that we don't know the opponent. That's why I like just Calling and reevaluating further streets. Nah, I wouldn't say that the odds are very good for the reason that any flush might be possible and as well we have to discount outs.
    • Letsdothisish
      Letsdothisish
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.02.2009 Posts: 995
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by rvvrecke
      Originally posted by veriz
      Hello rvvrecke,

      Actually for just the reason that we have showdown value and I see him bluffing this kind of spots pretty often but I still want him to continue with his bluffs, I'd rather just Call it and let him continue his bluffs on further streets. Otherwise this is exactly the spot where I don't want to put myself, as he did 3bet us, I'd rather say we fold this hand unless we have a good reason to continue. As played turn & river are fine for the given odds.

      Best regards.
      Isn't it reasonable to raise the flop here since I don't want to see any :heart: /6/J to pick it up then and there? And aren't I getting the odds to call the min 3bet? Surely if he had 3betted me decently I would have folded but the odds seemed too good for me.
      The problem is just what happened, we actually turned our hand into bluff, since I'd rather just fold it on flop for the reason that we don't know the opponent. That's why I like just Calling and reevaluating further streets. Nah, I wouldn't say that the odds are very good for the reason that any flush might be possible and as well we have to discount outs.
      Ok, thank you