playing middle pairs!!!

    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      Playing middle pairs seem to be costing more dollars than anything else, the biggest mistake I seem to be making is when I get to check in, just played a game where I checked in with k 5o the board flopped Ah 2c 7s I checked again as did the other two players in the hand. the turn dropped kc I thought well no-one has bet so far so will pop in a bet for the k, but it turned out one of the players had kq should I have even bet this hand ? it cost me half my stack?
  • 13 replies
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      How did you get into the hand with trash like K5o? What does it mean "to check in"? What did the opponent do after your bet - did he call? If yes, what happened next? If he raised, what did you do?
      Hand history would be much more readable and would answer to all those questions...
    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      I think he means being in BB. If so, the strategy clearly states you should continue playing if you have top pair + kicker equal or better than J. You only had middle pair with kicker 5 so your hand was worthless.

      Middle pairs are played when you have initiative on the flop. Read the damn strategy man :l
    • noclaninator
      noclaninator
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2008 Posts: 312
      There are 3 reasons why you should bet when you have an opportunity. Each one is not applicable in your spot.

      1: To make a worse hand call. 76o is not going to call the turn, nor is 99 or any other hand worse than those.

      2: To make a better hand fold. KQ and Ax are not folding the turn, nor any hand better.

      3: To protect your hand from possible outs your opponents may have. It is reasonable to assume that your Kx is the best hand a good chunk of the time after this flop is checked. But how much protection does your hand really need? Once in a while someone has a flush draw or a gutshot but other than that everyone is drawing thin. Assuming the pot was 4bb (since its a limped pot and all) a minbet would be enough to deny proper odds for all draws except a flushdraw.

      So minbetting the turn is probably a good play. After that all you can do is bluffcatch at best. You should never be losing half your stack on this hand. Even if you check/call river for a reasonable bet you only lose like 1/4 of your stack. On top of that no matter what he has you will get good information on how he plays. If he shows an A you know he can check top pair on the flop. If he shows a better K you know he can value bet thin.
    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      Originally posted by Bliausmas
      How did you get into the hand with trash like K5o? What does it mean "to check in"? What did the opponent do after your bet - did he call? If yes, what happened next? If he raised, what did you do?
      Hand history would be much more readable and would answer to all those questions...
      I was on the bb and I check,I would not play k5o !!! He called after the k turn so I called his bet then he called again so I called, I would not normally play a hand like this but the sss strat tells me to play middle pairs have I got this confused? I have not learned to down load hand histories yet.
    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      Originally posted by BadeaCelRau
      I think he means being in BB. If so, the strategy clearly states you should continue playing if you have top pair + kicker equal or better than J. You only had middle pair with kicker 5 so your hand was worthless.

      Middle pairs are played when you have initiative on the flop. Read the damn strategy man :l
      Oh sorry I have just realised what this means!!!! thankyou!!! have just re-read it!!!! :P
    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      Sorry guys it takes me a while to work things out in my head!! I read things and it does not always go straight in!!! This has been my biggest leak even though I am actually starting to make a profit !!! :P
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      Originally posted by roopopper
      I was on the bb and I check,I would not play k5o !!! He called after the k turn so I called his bet then he called again so I called, I would not normally play a hand like this but the sss strat tells me to play middle pairs have I got this confused? I have not learned to down load hand histories yet.
      He called, so you called, then he called again, so you called? :f_confused: Ok, nevermind...

      Btw, middle pairs (if according to Pokerstrategy guide) are pocket pairs with one overcard, like 77 on Q52 flop, or 99 on K73 flop. On your hand you had second pair with no kicker, but not middle pair.

      About hand history - you can use Holdem Manager/Poker Tracker/Elephant to record your hands. If you don't use them, hand history still must be in a specific folder in your computer (sub-folder of your poker room's main folder usually). But then, of course, you will need to find needed hands manually.
      Without hand history it's just a mess - for example, it appears that you were shortstacking - very good, sir, but we had no idea about that. We still don't know even if it's limit or no limit game.
    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      Originally posted by Bliausmas
      Originally posted by roopopper
      I was on the bb and I check,I would not play k5o !!! He called after the k turn so I called his bet then he called again so I called, I would not normally play a hand like this but the sss strat tells me to play middle pairs have I got this confused? I have not learned to down load hand histories yet.
      He called, so you called, then he called again, so you called? :f_confused:
      Yes!!! because I had middle pair and I was convinced he did not have an A, but I have realised I should not be calling with this hand unless I have j kicker or better!! I would have still lost this hand but it makes much more sense!!! :P
    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      I know it does not sound like much as im only playing micro stakes but I have doubled my money since I have been following the sss over the last few days!!! Its the first time I have won anything at all playing poker!!! I know im a pure fish but for the first time in alomost a year im starting to see the sense in playing the sss game!! It is taking me a little while to get out of bad habbits!!! :P
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      Hi

      Post the hand converted in the hand evaluation forum and we will have a much clearer picture of what happened and can give yopu a much accurate answer of what to do in that case
    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      Originally posted by Bliausmas
      Originally posted by roopopper
      I was on the bb and I check,I would not play k5o !!! He called after the k turn so I called his bet then he called again so I called, I would not normally play a hand like this but the sss strat tells me to play middle pairs have I got this confused? I have not learned to down load hand histories yet.
      He called, so you called, then he called again, so you called? :f_confused: Ok, nevermind...

      Btw, middle pairs (if according to Pokerstrategy guide) are pocket pairs with one overcard, like 77 on Q52 flop, or 99 on K73 flop. On your hand you had second pair with no kicker, but not middle pair.

      lol dont know how I missed seeing this!!! Just one question with this!! Suppose in your example I raise to 2/3 pot and got called, now if the turn card was say a j now would I fold or would I make a continuation bet that would prob commit most of my chips?
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      You shouldn't commit yourself to the pot when you have one pair, and if it's not even top pair, I think it's unquestionable :P
    • pokerkingspades
      pokerkingspades
      Basic
      Joined: 07.12.2010 Posts: 12
      Originally posted by roopopper
      Sorry guys it takes me a while to work things out in my head!! I read things and it does not always go straight in!!! This has been my biggest leak even though I am actually starting to make a profit !!! :P
      Good to hear