Challenge Inside Worse Bad Beat/cooler Hand

    • ZeMammuth
      ZeMammuth
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 704
      When you run good, you run good :D

      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $30(BB) Replayer
      ($1,245)
      Hero ($1,755)

      Dealt to Hero J:diamond: J:spade:

      Hero raises to $60, raises to $180, Hero calls $120

      FLOP ($360) K:diamond: K:spade: J:heart:

      bets $150, Hero calls $150

      TURN ($660) K:diamond: K:spade: J:heart: 9:diamond:

      checks, Hero bets $269, calls $269

      RIVER ($1,198) K:diamond: K:spade: J:heart: 9:diamond: 9:club:

      bets $646 (AI), Hero calls $646

      shows 9:heart: 9:spade:
      (Pre 18%, Flop 0.2%, Turn 2.3%)

      Hero shows J:diamond: J:spade:
      (Pre 82%, Flop 99.8%, Turn 97.7%)

      wins $2,490
  • 44 replies
    • Meemawuk
      Meemawuk
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2009 Posts: 758
      I can't believe you get it all in drawing dead. What a donk. Most obv runner runner quads ever!

      edit: your turn bet is the worst ever. looks like the kind of bet I'd make!
    • Saruniks
      Saruniks
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2010 Posts: 1,213
      Originally posted by Meemawuk
      I can't believe you get it all in drawing dead. What a donk. Most obv runner runner quads ever!

      edit: your turn bet is the worst ever. looks like the kind of bet I'd make!
      this is worth to say lol


      edit: 0.2%. So it has to hapen once in 500 times. you have to get with it ;D
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Sure, its unlucky, but no idea what you are are hoping to get value from on the river.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      like it makes any difference if you lost as a flip or like this or w/e
    • ZeMammuth
      ZeMammuth
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 704
      I like turn bet, i think a high always calls me on turn when i bet that size, so i was hoping to price a high in, and when the 9 pairs, he is always shoving river with a high, because 1) If i had a small pair it just got cancelled out, 2) I am always shoving him there with hands better than a high, so a decent player would always donk shove the river since u get value from worse hands and cant fold to better hands
    • DJMazzz
      DJMazzz
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.11.2009 Posts: 104
      He's shoving A high because your low pairs got canceled?

      So you're saying he shoves best hand to bluff you off? I don't get it.
    • ZeMammuth
      ZeMammuth
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 704
      I'm not even bothered explaining this hand: Basically what happened was:

      The guy 3b me, and I accidently called instead of shipping it ai pre, then i flop the nuts. Now gameflow wise, we have both been attacking the paired boards pretty hard, we've seen about 7 paired boards in the past and we have been fighting alot for them, making and showing bluffs ect.

      When I call, I flop the nuts, k-k-j. He checks, I bet, now on this point i am thinking he has a hand like a-k, or aq, or small/medium pocket pair.

      On the turn comes an interesting card because it puts a few draws out there, obviously with a fh i am not scared about the draws, infact, i want him to hit them. So I make a small suck bet, which I have been doing in the past paired boards abit with air. On the turn, by me betting small, he would always shove the turn with a king cause of the draws, so I could certainly eliminate a king at this point, and cause my bet is so small, a high always calls the turn, as he has been doing in the past.

      Now river comes 9, pairing the board again. So now if he has a king which i was 80 percent sure he didnt i was beat, however if he had a hand like a-9, or w/e i still have the best hand.

      So it was very very hard to put him on a hand, at first when the turn came I thought he either had a high, or 9's full, but then the river came another 9, so it was xtremly unlikely...So when he shoved river, all I could think was he doesnt have a king that i am sure off, so he either has quads or nothing...But i was just laughing at the unlikely hood, and the history that we had in paired boards so it was pretty impossible to fold from my point of view.

      If you guys wanna give opinions in the hand, be my guest :D but make sure it is clear and discuss why x would be a better move than x
    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      Originally posted by ZeMammuth
      then i flop the nuts.
      When I call, I flop the nuts, k-k-j.
      If you consider that JJ is the nuts on this board then please come play me lol.

      Your JJ is beaten by KK (not that unlikely for him to have considering he 3bet you preflop) and also beaten by KJ. So in effect your "nuts" is in fact the 3rd nuts.
    • JuiceQuadre
      JuiceQuadre
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.10.2008 Posts: 2,688
      Originally posted by Fagin
      Originally posted by ZeMammuth
      then i flop the nuts.
      When I call, I flop the nuts, k-k-j.
      If you consider that JJ is the nuts on this board then please come play me lol.

      Your JJ is beaten by KK (not that unlikely for him to have considering he 3bet you preflop) and also beaten by KJ. So in effect your "nuts" is in fact the 3rd nuts.
      No need for overflaming imho... To every smart person its quite obvious what he meant when he said "nuts".. He basically has the nuts as the only trouble for him is how to get all the monies in..

      Being smartass doesnt help anybody =]
    • iRozi54
      iRozi54
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.05.2009 Posts: 22
      Originally posted by ZeMammuth
      however if he had a hand like a-9
      Why would he shove A9..only get's called with better hands.


      But i agree it was a bad beat once u know the starting hands.

      i had a similar situation where i had QQ and my oponent 22. and flop was Q23 rainbow, turn 2...u can imagine how that ended.

      Originally posted by Fagin
      If you consider that JJ is the nuts on this board then please come play me lol.
      if u read on wich hands he put him on the flop...then he had the nuts in that range of hands at that point in hand
    • ZeMammuth
      ZeMammuth
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 704
      Originally posted by Fagin
      Originally posted by ZeMammuth
      then i flop the nuts.
      When I call, I flop the nuts, k-k-j.
      If you consider that JJ is the nuts on this board then please come play me lol.

      Your JJ is beaten by KK (not that unlikely for him to have considering he 3bet you preflop) and also beaten by KJ. So in effect your "nuts" is in fact the 3rd nuts.
      mm, you are either amazingly clever or possibly the greatest poker player in the world, on the flop, kk beats me, yes. So i assume you will put him on flopped quads? Or kj beat me also, so I assume u will put him on k-j which is also as unlikly as quads since i have jj

      Mm, I have alot to learn for sure, cause i deff am not good enough of putting people on quads as u see from this hand :D Please give me coaching, I will pay you anything!
    • tcs35
      tcs35
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 3,583
      But who the FUCK flops quads? Unpossible imo,

      also when did you start playing $15/30 nice job :)

      edit: lol its a sng my bad
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      Originally posted by Fagin
      Originally posted by ZeMammuth
      then i flop the nuts.
      When I call, I flop the nuts, k-k-j.
      If you consider that JJ is the nuts on this board then please come play me lol.

      Your JJ is beaten by KK (not that unlikely for him to have considering he 3bet you preflop) and also beaten by KJ. So in effect your "nuts" is in fact the 3rd nuts.
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
    • ExMagnusxL
      ExMagnusxL
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2010 Posts: 58
      I'll just leave this here...


      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.01/$0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      BU:
      $2.32
      SB:
      $2.21
      BB:
      $1.93
      UTG1:
      $1.40
      UTG2:
      $1.03
      MP1:
      $1.38
      MP2 (Hero):
      $2.06
      MP3:
      $3.36
      CO:
      $2.39


      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J, J.
      UTG1 posts deadblind, UTG1 checks, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.10, 5 folds, UTG1 calls $0.08.

      Flop: ($0.23) J, A, J (2 players)
      UTG1 bets $0.06, Hero calls $0.06.

      Turn: ($0.35) 5 (2 players)
      UTG1 checks, Hero bets $0.14, UTG1 raises to $1.24, Hero calls $1.10.

      River: ($2.83) 3 (2 players)


      Final Pot: $2.83.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows four of a kind, jacks(J J).
      UTG1 shows a pair of jacks(Q 2).

      Hero wins with four of a kind, jacks(J J).
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by ExMagnusxL
      I'll just leave this here...

      Final Pot: $2.83.
      Now that's a beat that he has to deal with every day
    • ExMagnusxL
      ExMagnusxL
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2010 Posts: 58
      Not for much longer, soon I'll be able to get medium stacks to shove against my quads on NL5, fuck yeah!
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by ZeMammuth
      Originally posted by Fagin
      Originally posted by ZeMammuth
      then i flop the nuts.
      When I call, I flop the nuts, k-k-j.
      If you consider that JJ is the nuts on this board then please come play me lol.

      Your JJ is beaten by KK (not that unlikely for him to have considering he 3bet you preflop) and also beaten by KJ. So in effect your "nuts" is in fact the 3rd nuts.
      mm, you are either amazingly clever or possibly the greatest poker player in the world, on the flop, kk beats me, yes. So i assume you will put him on flopped quads? Or kj beat me also, so I assume u will put him on k-j which is also as unlikly as quads since i have jj

      Mm, I have alot to learn for sure, cause i deff am not good enough of putting people on quads as u see from this hand :D Please give me coaching, I will pay you anything!
      He is gold, you are bronze. Nuff said! :f_biggrin:
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      With your explanation this sortof makes sense.


      Just flatcalling the 3bet preflop isn't bad imo. Maybe even preferred since you minraise but i won't explain that indepth.



      I don't like cbetting less then half the pot though so just a little more.. On the turn i think that's just bad.. You need to CHARGE the draws. Even if you already pretty much have the nuts you should still charge the draws. If he misses you aren't getting any more chips on the river. And when you have a good hand like top pair, two pair or trips in a spot like that you want to charge the draws alot.. But if you'd only bet weakly on the turn when you have the nuts and not when you have a semi-good hand then that's easy to abuse imo. Even though in theory if he did have a draw in that spot he'd have made it on the turn in which case there's still no reason to bet weakly since he'll be getting it in any way..

      On the river you have to ask yourself.. what do you really beat? Kx, Jx, 9x and Ax hands.. Even though personally i think donkbetshoving A high on boards like that is absolutely terrible. I see little point in Jx hands suddenly getting it in on the river either. That leaves Kx hands playing it cautiously and just trying to get you to get some chips and let you continue your bluff if you are doing that. And 9x hands which is not very likely against most players. I couldn't have folded JJ though..