Folding QQ to a 3bet

    • CreamyGoodness
      CreamyGoodness
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2010 Posts: 229
      Hey Folks

      First off, I apologise for not having this hand in proper format. For some retarded reason I didnt get the HH from this tourney, and I dont have tracking software just yet.

      I was playing the $11 deep stack game on stars yesterday, and was a few hours in. Blinds were 125/250 with 25 antes, and I had a stack of around 11k, an an M of 18ish.

      Everyone folds to me in the hijack/mp3 position and i find myself with two Queens. Obviously I make it 750 to play. The BU calls and the SB folds but the BB, with a stack of exactly 10k moves all in!

      Now the BU has been playing a good aggresive game, looser than I would play but still very TAG. He's winning nice pots with reasonable hands, and seems to know his stuff. He's seen me, a tight player, raise in late position, and may be calling light, but not with garbage. Say 22-99, A9-AQ. But, he is a good player, and might have just chosen not to raise with AK or KK. Unlikely but possible.

      The BB however has been a rock. Ive been at the table for about 40 hands and all ive seen him play is one big blind, where he checked his option. He's done nothing, no limping, no completed small blinds, nothing. So what can I put him on? So i told myself the best I can hope for here is a flip if he's holding AK, and thats it. My QQ went in the muck.

      What would you have done?
  • 14 replies
    • CreamyGoodness
      CreamyGoodness
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2010 Posts: 229
      Oh and dont get me wrong, Im not in the habit of folding QQ to 3bets in the mid stages of any tourney, especially not when I open in late position. I just went with my gut on this one.
    • fusionpk
      fusionpk
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,692
      depends on ur pot odds, u have 40% vs QQ+/AK range so what pots odds do you get? Are you sure he has this range, does he have JJ?
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Well im never folding in that spot. I don't think his range is only QQ+/AK. Imo he has at least TT+ AQ+ that he would play that way. 40 hands really isn't any kind of sample size and he might just been card dead for 4 orbits which can easily happen. And it would be pretty much a disaster to fold the best hand here with the odds your getting.
    • amplifyd
      amplifyd
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 1,769
      call lol. qq in 11$ to overshove 3b is nuts
    • CreamyGoodness
      CreamyGoodness
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2010 Posts: 229
      Ok so with what hands would you call with here? TT+ and AK?

      What about the button? Should i be wary of him or should i factor him as just an element to the BB's squeeze play?
    • CreamyGoodness
      CreamyGoodness
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2010 Posts: 229
      It happened again, only deeper in the tourney...

      Blinds 350/700, antes whatever. I had a stack of 30k...

      Opened for 2800 from the CO, SB reraised all in. he had 35k...

      He also had KK...

      Im a sad teddy bear...
    • curnow
      curnow
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2007 Posts: 1,039
      Originally posted by MatejM47
      Well im never folding in that spot. I don't think his range is only QQ+/AK. Imo he has at least TT+ AQ+ that he would play that way. 40 hands really isn't any kind of sample size and he might just been card dead for 4 orbits which can easily happen. And it would be pretty much a disaster to fold the best hand here with the odds your getting.
      looks like standard squeeze play & would call as well , no way has he got you dominated & at best AK which is not ideal

      btw do tourney history on stars & then get tourney ID & you can get hand history from that & post it in section for Professional Judge to look at , other thing your preflop raise is way to big , 2.5bb & you will find out same information & allows you to get away from hands cheap
    • jonnyebeneezer
      jonnyebeneezer
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2008 Posts: 5
      i am definately calling. he could easily be putting you on a much worse hand than qq and the button would surely have re-raised you if his hand was strong. it is highly unlikely he would have shoved all in with aa or kk and at best i reckon he had 1010-jj or ak if not lower.
    • jonnyebeneezer
      jonnyebeneezer
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2008 Posts: 5
      ps whatever he had it was bad play by him imo.
    • fusionpk
      fusionpk
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,692
      at the end of the day standard go broke range 100bb deep is QQ+/AK, u are 40bb deep & in LP, also his hand looks so much more like AQ/AK/JJ since he just shoves, so obv its like saying "i have a strong hand but i have no clue how to play it"
    • scriptacle
      scriptacle
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.01.2011 Posts: 37
      Well from what you're saying, I would put BU more on 77-JJ or ATs+ he could be betting with a wider range from BU just to deny you the blinds, and still has good odds on the flop, but the pot is 2k+ more than 20% of your stacks, so it's pretty significant.

      I would generally call QQ too. BB probably has JJ-KK or AQ+. The way he is betting is more donking to push you off the pot pre flop. Indicating he is unwilling to let it go to flop betting where he will be OOP. Doubtful it's AA but, perhaps he is unwilling to risk the flop cards improving your hands considering you've been playing tight and he is happy with the 2k pot. But still 4beting would seem more reasonable to get max EV.
    • CreamyGoodness
      CreamyGoodness
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2010 Posts: 229
      re: hand #1..

      Once again, you are all correct! He held 99, while the BU had AKo (im suprised he played it so slow). I would have hit my set on river. I cashed a little inside the bubble, think I got around $25. Had I called with the ladies I would have had a monster stack and might have gone very deep.

      Horrible fold, lesson learned. Thanks guys.
    • Tiltberger
      Tiltberger
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2005 Posts: 28,233
      Originally posted by CreamyGoodness
      re: hand #1..

      Once again, you are all correct! He held 99, while the BU had AKo (im suprised he played it so slow). I would have hit my set on river. I cashed a little inside the bubble, think I got around $25. Had I called with the ladies I would have had a monster stack and might have gone very deep.

      Horrible fold, lesson learned. Thanks guys.
      good you used the forums! i can just agree with the other posters!
      easy call!

      oh and by the way also if you have 100% roi on the 11$ deep stack tourney on stars your hourly rate shouldnt be higher than 1$ -> just keep that in mind if your playing such a "sick" tournament!
    • Andyuk18
      Andyuk18
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.12.2010 Posts: 527
      I seem to have a similar problem when in the mid/late stages of a tournament. Just today i find myself folding QT in late position to a standard 3BB raise from a early position raiser and a caller before me. I had a solid 30BB stack and i can't figure out why i did not make the simple call. Flop comes xxQ and turn comes another Q, the two guys had AJ and a weaker Ax but were bluffing the crap out of it. Missed opportunities like these make me think i need to loosen up my play.

      Any suggestions on this hand? Is it a standard call everytime or is it ok to fold to the raiser/caller? I pretty much had no reads on any of the opponents.

      Overall i think i'm definitely playing for ITM more than for a big score and i gotta change that attitude. However i do think i have a good edge on most opponents the deeper into the tournament i get due to having played quite a lot of DoN games in the past where stealing and putting pressure on diff stacks is important so an average stack late on is not a bad spot for me.