BOTs on FTP?!

    • drachdudek
      drachdudek
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.11.2007 Posts: 656
      Hi

      On many Forums like 2+2 etc.i have read many threads that FTP is posioned with many BOTs (BOT is a software which is playing instead of human..) and in many hand evaluations when people evaluating hands are asking guy who posted hand first "what was you opponent BOT or Human?!"...This is insane!....How can you actually find a BOT in micro limits...What do you think about that?

      Drach
  • 8 replies
    • meater
      meater
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      Joined: 31.10.2007 Posts: 32
      its only on low limit games though ant it? if they are on nl thats crazy!
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
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      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      Im a bot, SSS bot.
    • thunderbird56
      thunderbird56
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      Joined: 02.12.2007 Posts: 2,179
      If anyone could find out his opponent is a bot and what rules it's applying, he'd be a winning player ;)

      Good luck at the tables!
      -thunderbird56-
    • ccookie
      ccookie
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2007 Posts: 68
      I fully believe there are bots on many sites, 2+2 forums have a few well documented cases.

      You cannot detect a bot, the "tells" are not that reliable:
      • Not responding it chat. But a human playing 20 tables may not respond too.
      • Unusual timing, say thinking too long in every simple situation. Again, can be legitimate: multitabling, or just trying not to give you timing tells.
      • Consistent statistics across many hands, especially if it's matching another (also bot) account. Need at least tens of thousands hands history to prove that way.


      I believe eventually we'll trust poker rooms to fight bots, though they didn't do great job so far. But only poker rooms have enough information to do this properly.

      I don't play FullTilt because games are tighter than other sites. I won't sit at a FR table with 20% VPIP - there's no money in it. Maybe bots are the reason, doesn't matter - just don't play at such tables.

      If bots bother you, consider games that are less bots-prone. The worst is heads-up Limit Holdem, successful bots were even of high stakes. There must be lots of bots playing either SSS or "set-miner" strategy on NL full-ring. Successful "set-miner" bots were up to 100NL. Also known SnG bots, limit Stud, short-stack Omaha bots.

      The common belief is 6-max NL Holdem game is not solved by bots, neither is heads-up NL Holdem. But of course you can play any other game profitably if you can find enough fish to exploit.

      I cannot completely agree with thunderbird on exploiting a bot. Many times it will not be worth it. A good bot will randomize its play using game theory, so you can only put it on a range of hands, pretty much same as a good human opponent. Or if you see bot in full ring with 5%/5% VPIP/PFR: you cannot really make plays at it other than stealing blinds if position allows.
    • MrSvingKing
      MrSvingKing
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      Joined: 20.11.2007 Posts: 135
      Who set up those bots?
    • ccookie
      ccookie
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2007 Posts: 68
      Micro-stakes bots (mostly Limit Holdem) are created for sale, there are many versions. The creators could not make much money with bots themselves, so they are selling licenses to those looking for easy money. (200$ for 1 year or whatever). Not that it's a good investment, many bots are not even winning. So on micro-stakes, the bot would belong to somebody who may not even have a clue about poker.

      If bot is good enough to beat higher stakes, then it makes sense for creators to not share it (though who knows).

      Higher-stakes bots seem to be often monitored by their handlers who might be quite strong players. This lets them reply in chat, avoid detection by CAPTCHA technology PokerStars utilize now, select tables, or make other important decisions.

      The successful NL100 bots on FullTilt were monitored by human owner(s) and a human would take over whenever somebody tries to exploit the bot. This is another danger of making plays at a bot: keep in mind the owner may appear any second. The person who originally found those FullTilt bots learned their strategy well and tried to exploit them (reraise with air in certain situations), but lost enough money at the end after not recognizing the game was already handled by a human.

      There are conspiracy theories that some sites create their own bots to generate more rake, but I doubt that very much. If they wanted to cheat, they could do it in a more straightforward way.
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      What are the source of information of these Full Tilt bots ?
      I might seem to be bot myself, i can tell you. Or most SSS players could.
    • ccookie
      ccookie
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2007 Posts: 68
      http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/
      Then search for "bots" or something.

      Those threads are huge though.

      This is the thread about NL200 bots (not even NL100 as I said before):
      http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=1259

      Here's a recent one where the thread creator (nice girl and apparently a good live player) was proved beyond reasonable doubt to run a high stakes HU Limit Holdem bot:
      http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=41524

      As for SSS player looking like a bot - I say it does not matter. A player who always follows a strategy is as exploitable as a bot would be. Of course the similarity makes it harder for poker sites to detect bots while not harming legitimate players.