[NL2-NL10] NL50 FR - KK, very tight villain

    • Faye6891
      Faye6891
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2007 Posts: 1,234
      Titan No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25/$0.50BB (Titan HH Converter by Kreatief)

      Button ($19.25)
      SB ($80.70)
      BB ($9.50)
      UTG ($30.55)
      UTG+1 ($62.70) (Hero)
      UTG+2 ($52.75)
      MP1 ($54.00)
      MP2 ($49.15)
      MP3 ($52.00)
      CO ($15.50)

      Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K:diamond: , K:spade:
      1 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, 6 folds, SB raises to $3.50, 1 folds, Hero raises to $10.00, SB calls $7.75,

      Flop: 9:diamond: , Q:spade: , 6:heart: ( $23.5 )
      SB checks, Hero checks,

      Turn: 5:club: ( $23.5 )
      SB checks, Hero checks,

      River: 6:club: ( $23.5 )
      SB checks, Hero bets $13.00, 1 folds

      Final Pot: $35.35

      Villain Stats:
      VPIP: 9.65
      PF Raise: 2.63
      AF: 1.8
      WTSD: 30.77
      Hands: 114

      Maybe I played this hand a little too passive?
      But the guy was so tight that I could not see him reraising me PF with a range worse than AK, JJ+. Since he did not put in another raise PF, I kinda ruled out AA and KK.
      So on the flop I believe he could have AK, JJ or QQ... That means, I'm either way behind or way ahead.
      And with that board, if he was behind he had very few outs, so I decided to check the hand along for pot control. On the turn the same thing.
      On the river I probably had the best hand, decided to bet and hope he calls.
  • 15 replies
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      You have overpair and only hand that beats you is QQ. Why check on the turn and give him free river card. I would probably play stacks on the flop.
    • Gungunhana
      Gungunhana
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.02.2007 Posts: 429
      I´d bet/call the flop and turn. As said by Kaitz20, only hand that beats you is QQ, because his reraise pf doesn´t indicate small pockets and he didn´t show any sign of strenght after the flop.
      No point in giving him a free card.
    • Faye6891
      Faye6891
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2007 Posts: 1,234
      I opted to give him a free card because of the range I put him in.

      If he has AK, he only has 3 outs to beat me, so no big risk in giving a free card, after all, he's not calling a raise anyway. But he may be tempted to bluff, besides that, If he catches the last King, I stack him.

      If he has JJ, he only has 2 outs, even less risk in giving a free card, and with the Q out there it becomes difficult for him to call a raise, but by checking I may induce a bluff.

      If he has QQ, I'm the one who's behind and got only 2 outs. So I'm the one who wants free cards and want to keep the pot as small as possible.

      So, IMO, I got a hand who doesn't need protection so I decided to try and control the size of the pot.

      @Kaitz20: Why play for stacks? We are both deep stacked and QQ is probably the only hand who's gonna be willing to play for it.

      @Gungunhana: It's true, he didn't show any sign of strength on the flop nor the turn. But anyone can slowplay a set (even though I don't think it's a good play), there are even some crazy guys who will do it until the river is dealt.
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      @Kaitz20: Why play for stacks? We are both deep stacked and QQ is probably the only hand who's gonna be willing to play for it.


      I've seen people go for it with Ace Queen...
    • Faye6891
      Faye6891
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2007 Posts: 1,234
      AQ is the only hand I think would justify betting. But given PF action and villain's stats, I think it's very unlikely he's holding it, don't you?
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      Suppose if an A falls on the turn then you will open fold regardless.

      ie. You lose 3/47*$23.5=$1.50 on average by allowing a free-card.

      If your opponent bluffs $15 on the turn 10% of the time then you gain $1.50 and checking and betting have the same EV.

      It all depends here on how likely/much your opponent is bluffing on the turn. Obviosly never give a free card to one who doesn't bluff often enough.
    • Faye6891
      Faye6891
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2007 Posts: 1,234
      I may be wrong but... aren't you guys completely disregarding pot control here?

      @Nunki: If an Ace falls onthe turn and he bets on the turn, given his stats I'm folding cause I don't think he'd bet with JJ with overcards on the board, that's true.

      But let's see one thing, when an Ace doesn't fall, I win 44/47*23.5=$22 on average... plus a little bit more when he decides to bet his AK or JJ unimproved.
      Maybe he doesn't bluff too much, but betting JJ here is not exactly a bluff, only one overcard on the board, and I could be holding AK.

      So, I don't think checking and betting have the same EV when villain bluffs 15% of the time.
    • mchaggis
      mchaggis
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.09.2006 Posts: 157
      3bet pf and no conti bet?
      Conti bet always. Then if u get called you should think about pot control but I don't think it's needed here. You're either way ahead or way behind and you can only find that out if you bet.
    • Thorsten77
      Thorsten77
      Black
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 12,896
      Bet Flop, bet turn. If he has AA - nice hand...
    • Faye6891
      Faye6891
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2007 Posts: 1,234
      Originally posted by Thorsten77
      Bet Flop, bet turn. If he has AA - nice hand...
      I still don't get why I should bet all the way and play for my whole stack here. I don't see worse hands he'd be willing to put a big chunk of his stack in the middle with that board.
    • degnic
      degnic
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.02.2007 Posts: 3,953
      If he has QQ or AA, villain would definetly bet with those hands and you would most likely play for stacks. I can understand why to check flop behind but when he checks 2nd time on turn, I definetly valuebet turn & push river.
    • Faye6891
      Faye6891
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2007 Posts: 1,234
      True, I'm missing a valuebet on the turn, I see it. But if villain is a somewhat decent player, and I think he is, he's not calling a push on the river with JJ or AK.

      Actually I don't even think he's calling a bet on the turn with AK, but since he's not overagressive, he's probably not bluffing the river with AK anyway. So I'm better off betting the turn.

      But why push river?
    • comon
      comon
      Silver
      Joined: 09.10.2007 Posts: 59
      offtopic, Faye6891 how come u play on that limit as a bronze member ? upswing ? playing your own money ?
    • Faye6891
      Faye6891
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2007 Posts: 1,234
      Originally posted by comon
      offtopic, Faye6891 how come u play on that limit as a bronze member ? upswing ? playing your own money ?
      Faye's Poker... Career?

      But if you're not in the mood to read... I'm gonna be quick. ;)
      It's my own money, I started playing for strategy points now in december, actually I think I already made silver but it's taking some time to update.
      Don't want to go too off topic here.
    • Thorsten77
      Thorsten77
      Black
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 12,896
      Maybe you can check behind the flop (but then, be aware that you balance your line, i.e., against reasonable opponents, you also have to check behind QQ in this spot to be not readable), but I don't think he checks two times with a monster in this spot. I wanna "protect" against an A and get value from JJ.