Idea: Purchasing cash and items in shop with PS points

    • bornajecar
      bornajecar
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      Joined: 04.06.2010 Posts: 8
      So idea is quite simple, users earn points as they do know and pokerstrategy enebales them buying 2nd starting capitals or just bonus money or purchasing items from shop like books and T-shirts :)

      So forum, what do you say? :f_cool:
  • 14 replies
    • Hadi
      Hadi
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      Joined: 09.08.2009 Posts: 12,303
      Hi there,

      the StrategyPoints are not supposed to be seen as currency which you can trade in for rewards - if they were, we'd get in trouble with our partners, as that'd be a form of illegal rakeback.

      Regards,

      Hadi
    • fembot26
      fembot26
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      Joined: 25.08.2010 Posts: 72
      Could you please explain this, Hadi? Do you mean the poker rooms don't want competition from sites like PokerStrategy as far as selling merchandise, because this would cut into their business? It doesn't quite make sense to me - what are the incentives here?
    • Hadi
      Hadi
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      Joined: 09.08.2009 Posts: 12,303
      Maybe I should've gone a bit more into detail ;) Look at it this way:
      Full Tilt, for example, only allows their affiliates to give up to 27% rakeback - which is what we offer. Now, if we gave our members for example a hat that is worth $5 for every 100SP that they play, they would get the 27% rakeback plus another form of physical reward.

      And that would technically mean that we broke our contract with Full Tilt ;)

      Hadi
    • Heffron89
      Heffron89
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      Joined: 23.01.2009 Posts: 813
      Its possible on other affiliates so i dont know why not here? I mean to spend xx points on xx merchandise
    • fembot26
      fembot26
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      Joined: 25.08.2010 Posts: 72
      Thanks, Hadi - I suppose what's confusing me is why the poker rooms would impose a limit on the rakeback that affiliates can pay. Economics questions such as this are intriguing - like the topics in the 'Freakonomics' books.

      (Just for the record, I don't have any interest in being able to buy things using StrategyPoints, now or in the future - am merely interested in the surrounding issues.)
    • Hadi
      Hadi
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      Joined: 09.08.2009 Posts: 12,303
      Our promotion policy, particularly this example are a good explanation of why limits on rakeback make sense :)

      Hadi
    • fembot26
      fembot26
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      Joined: 25.08.2010 Posts: 72
      Hi Hadi, unfortunately I can't seem to access that post, maybe because it's restricted to certain groups.
    • Hadi
      Hadi
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      Joined: 09.08.2009 Posts: 12,303
      Oh I'm sorry, that is the correct link: The PokerStrategy.com Bonus and Promotion Policy

      Apologies :)
    • fembot26
      fembot26
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      Joined: 25.08.2010 Posts: 72
      Thanks Hadi, it was surprising for me to learn that PokerStrategy has developed its bonus and promotion policy through negotiation with the poker rooms, and also effectively through negotiation with its players, in order to ensure a stable and profitable environment in the long term. I might be stretching to draw an analogy here, but this arrangement seems similar to a state in which the government, big companies, and big unions work out a system whereby each restrains its own selfish short-term demands for the greater good. (Or perhaps I've read too much Galbraith.) But it's amusing to think of a poker room like Full Tilt Poker as a kind of quasi-"government".

      I suspect this kind of economic thinking is more natural for Europeans than for those from Anglophone countries, where people are accustomed to thinking in terms of "the free market" and pretty selfish short-term goals. But I don't know - last I heard, PokerStars was owned by Israelis, and Full Tilt's ownership was unclear (surely it's not really owned by all those American poker pros?).

      Just my idle speculations, largely based on ignorance. I'd just never heard of private companies negotiating common long-term policy in this way before.
    • santostr
      santostr
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      Joined: 11.08.2009 Posts: 663
      Option 2, by the way, does not insinuate that 0% rake back and bonuses would be ideal. A player's loyalty to a poker room and his performance at the tables should most definitely be rewarded.

      But the choice, how much a player gets, should be a question of competition between the poker networks. I.e. iPoker must compete with PartyPoker and PokerStars here. Internal competition inside of iPoker just damages the network and will lead to it losing in the race against the other big networks.



      I agree.
    • bornajecar
      bornajecar
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      Joined: 04.06.2010 Posts: 8
      I understand what you are saying but than I'm confused because I saw that affiliates like PokerSpace offer both first starting capital+rakeback+ you are able there to buy things (even packages for WPT, etc.) with their pokerspace points.

      I mean I'm loyal to pokerstrategy but I wonder how are they able to offer things like that than :D
    • makrelion
      makrelion
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      Joined: 16.12.2009 Posts: 44
      Originally posted by Hadi
      Oh I'm sorry, that is the correct link: The PokerStrategy.com Bonus and Promotion Policy

      Apologies :)
      I read the article and I want to ask a theoretical question.
      There was an example with fictional poker room "EasyPoker". And it was said that in a long term, that room would be flooded with sharks and fishes would leave it, because of tough competition.
      So in other words, does it mean, that the less rakeback poker room offers, the more fishes play in it?
    • Hadi
      Hadi
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      Joined: 09.08.2009 Posts: 12,303
      Not necessarily - basically, the higher the rakeback, the more attractive it becomes to sharks in the short term, and as the number of sharks increases, the tables get tougher, making the room less attractive overall.
      Imagine rakeback as a house of cards - you need a good number of cards to make it stable, but adding too many will cause the entire thing to collapse in itself.

      As for bornajecars example, I'm not too sure myself, but I've forwarded this internally - thanks for pointing this out :)

      Hadi
    • Xantos
      Xantos
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.09.2005 Posts: 9,705
      Originally posted by fembot26
      Thanks Hadi, it was surprising for me to learn that PokerStrategy has developed its bonus and promotion policy through negotiation with the poker rooms, and also effectively through negotiation with its players, in order to ensure a stable and profitable environment in the long term. I might be stretching to draw an analogy here, but this arrangement seems similar to a state in which the government, big companies, and big unions work out a system whereby each restrains its own selfish short-term demands for the greater good. (Or perhaps I've read too much Galbraith.) But it's amusing to think of a poker room like Full Tilt Poker as a kind of quasi-"government".

      [...]
      Hey fembot26,

      interesting analogy! :)

      It is a trend that comes with the collision of classic sales techniques and the online world.

      In the old days, say you were a newspaper and want other people to sell it, you didn't care too much if they gave out a share of their earnings for bringing new customers as "cash back".

      This "cash back" pheonomenon works great because of two things:
      1. Short-termism.
      2. Offline, it is difficult for a "cash back" provider to cannibalise into your natural customers - i.e. cash back customers are likely to be genuine new customers.

      Online, it's a different thing. Cash back develops to it's own machine that optimises exactly for cannibalising their partners - instead of maximising positive effects / acquisition of genuine new customers.

      Groupon is also a nice example of a cash back provider - though they work because they..
      A. create a lot of one-time attraction for their temporary cash back.
      B. the products they work with are mostly offline.

      I.e. cash back can be good for
      - offline products
      - or as a short-term marketing campaign

      If you allow SEO companies / affiliate companies (who often happen to be the same) to give cash back for your product, you will cannibalise yourself in the long run.

      We think that an online product such as a poker room should have the same monetary values / costs (i.e. same VIP programme, rakeback, rake) for all customers - independent on where they signed up through.

      Healthy competition still exists - between the large poker rooms / networks, who are in fierce competition for customers.

      Best,
      Lutz