[NL2-NL10] 1st sample hand, lessons to be learnt

    • stantos
      stantos
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2007 Posts: 173
      0.10/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q:diamond: , Q:club:
      UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, 2 folds, SB calls $1.15, BB folds, MP1 calls $1.00.

      Flop: ($4.00) A:diamond: , T:club: , 6:club: (3 players)
      SB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $3.85 (All-In), SB folds, MP1 calls $3.85.

      Turn: ($11.70) 4:spade:
      River: ($11.70) 8:heart:


      Final Pot: $11.70

      hi guy's first sample hand, comments welcome, I would like to add though that I was trying to fifure the texas grab em out at the same time. Last hand of a +$26 session which included getting my $100 bonus. Thanks
  • 11 replies
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Well, normally you should fold here, because you are in wa/wb situation and if somebody has an Ace, your chances to improve are very low (2 outs)... But after two opponents checked to you, it may be worth pushing. you definately have some fold equity and flush draw can call you as well... But I won`t suggest doing it against unknown opponents, though.
    • stantos
      stantos
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2007 Posts: 173
      my thinking was, well if someone has an ace then surely they would have bet to protect a possible flush draw. also being short stack i was hoping that my representation of a big ace would have put an ace x off calling.

      Re thinking the hand if i was 100% on my game I prob would have check folded. It was just the way I saw it at the time.
    • stantos
      stantos
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2007 Posts: 173
      sorry just realised that the sample hand doesn't show what the guy had. He called with a 7os
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Well, your thoughts are reasonable. Of course Ace would likely bet for protection, though, on this limit, it is not always the case.
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      My experiences : They will call allin with any kicker if they hit their A on the flop.
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Yes, I agree with you, the fold equity here is very low (against Ax hands). But they will also likely bet with Ax and I guess it is quite correct on this flop...
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      Sometimes they bet, but surely call. He even possible thought himself smart for slowplaying his "monster".
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      well, ok, I see your point. The question here is what behaviour is more common.

      On higher limits I would definately push here, because even if one of them has a small ace, I will have quite fold equity against it... since I can represent a big ace myself.

      Pre-flop action was middle-late, so wide range is possible. On lower limits your FE is close to zero against Ax and there is also possibility of "slowplay", as you mentioned. Therefore, check is an option for sure... You have position, so you can check what will the turn bring.

      But, we also have to consider that on lower limits some worse hands will call us as well, like FD or even middle pair... I am sure that some players are capable of calling with pocket pairs here as well) though I wouldn`t say it is very likely.

      Stats might help to make a correct decision here... If you have any concerns, then check is better choice, I guess.

      Anyway, I will leave this hand unjudged, maybe Berliner will check it.
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      Probelem here is that we have no reads. Fact is, that most times every Ax hand of our opponents will call us here, since they see a made hand here. Even a Flushdraw might call here, where we are ahead, but he should still have at least 35% equity or more if he holds QJs or KQs in clubs. How often an Ace would bet into us here in hard to say.

      We have to options here:

      1. We push, but their is a good chance that we are behind.
      2. We check behind and fold against action on the turn. If still have enough money left to do that. Against 2 I do not see us pot committed here. If everybody checks to us on the Turn again, we bet.

      Against one player here, especially if it would be MP1 I would push (since its more unlikely that he holds an Ace, then the SB). Against 2 opponents I check behind and either bet with no action or fold to any bet on the turn.

      Pushing here would be only could if we have reads and know that both players play loose and calling down a lot.
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      yeah, I think option number 2. is the optimal play here, without having any reads.
    • stantos
      stantos
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2007 Posts: 173
      Nice one guys, it's good that the hand has been discussed in depth. I'm sticking by my decision to push. If it was the other way round I would have put myself on a strong Ace or minimum flush draw.

      I got called by ace x,in a hand that I would never of called myself. How he can think he's ahead is a mystery (even though he was).

      Cheers anyway, your comments have helped a lot