Irony in Poker

    • YinYangS
      YinYangS
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2010 Posts: 1,077
      Hi everyone!

      I just noticed this when we play poker and it's probably one thing we should change if we want to become better players.


      Situation 1 - The Usual Bad Beat
      • You were dealt the best hand of the game which we all know AA.
      • You raised with it then on the BB, he reraised.
      • You were happy and moved all-in immediately.
      • The guy called and showed T2. He probably thought he was Doyle Junior.
      • Flop comes 6 7 3. Turn comes 8. River comes..... 9.
      • You know what happened next.
      • And you? On tilt mode / insulting the player / furios


      Situation 2 - The "i'll try this, it might work"
      • You were dealt KQ on the BB.
      • Someone raised early position. All else folds and now it's your turn.
      • You "felt" that you were feeling lucky and moved all in.
      • Guy called and showed AK. And flop, turn, river gave you no help.
      • You busted your buy-in. And said, that's ok. "Better luck next time."


      Why the irony in poker?
      • In situation 1, we felt really upset. I know it's just common but shouldn't we still feel good as we made a good decision? We should be glad that in the long run, making these good decisions makes us profit. On the other hand, we should thank that player for being one of the "fishes" that keeps the poker world go around.
      • In situation 2, we felt "just ok". You made a bad move, your "instincts" thought you were feeling lucky. In fact, in this situation, it's where we should be upset. to whom? to ourselves. Because you made a bad move and you know that to be a better poker player, you should make good decisions.



      I wrote this as a reminder to myself of what i should do in this kind of situations. I'm hoping as well that I'm able to help those people who goes through similar situations.


      Let's play poker! Let's earn money!

      Chow!,,,
      YinYangS
  • 25 replies
    • Ali1874
      Ali1874
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.02.2011 Posts: 11
      Well said.

      Think this is probably the hardest thing I've had to combat since playing poker semi-seriously using PokerStrategy articles. Every now and again QK will come up and after somebody raised I'll be thinking 'hmm should I re-raise? All in maybe?' and after doing it a few times, I quickly realised it isn't profitable at all.

      Same goes for JK, QJ, AJ, AQ and even sometimes AK.

      My patience has increased immensely over the past couple of days and you can see the results (well, kind of made a loss but my EV is way way higher which makes me think I'm generally playing hands well).

      Next step for me is get to Silver level on here and just keep on learning.
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      You shouldn't follow your instinct that says "you're gonna be lucky, just shove". Better follow the instinct that says you have the best hand in difficult spots.
    • YinYangS
      YinYangS
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2010 Posts: 1,077
      Just finished my daily micro MTT grinding.

      Whenever I got bad beats, I just remember this thing I wrote.

      Also helped me in times when I almost called with not-so-sure cards. =)

      Happy for the day.

      Chow everyone! ^_^
    • AjoPP1
      AjoPP1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2010 Posts: 119
      Nice post, the thing is that bad beats don't ever make me tilt. I'm not pissed off by someone who calls my 5bet shove with 88 and cracks my AA. It's my stupid calls where I think I'm ahead against opponents' ranges in certain spots which literally cost me stacks and being pushed out of the pot by check/minraises and generally the desperation and uncertainty by not knowing what to do in certan spots. What if I fold and lose lots of value because the fish is just trying to outplay me? ?( My mindset seems to be very bad sometimes.
    • winzsavana
      winzsavana
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.01.2011 Posts: 50
      very nice post, hope many players read it. so they don't call some1 donk on the table...just smile.. and say.. thanks god i'm not him.
    • Jim4rdo
      Jim4rdo
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2010 Posts: 1,252
      Originally posted by winzsavana
      very nice post, hope many players read it. so they don't call some1 donk on the table...just smile.. and say.. thanks god i'm not him.
      Yeah I hope so.

      Really annoys me when people do that, I don't understand where they get the need to do it from. Although maybe it's because they have a big ego and it just got deflated ;>

      Nice post Yin, it's definitely true. The times when you're like oooh i will probably lose this if i call you don't feel angry about, but it's even worse in reality.
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      Originally posted by AjoPP1
      Nice post, the thing is that bad beats don't ever make me tilt. I'm not pissed off by someone who calls my 5bet shove with 88 and cracks my AA. It's my stupid calls where I think I'm ahead against opponents' ranges in certain spots which literally cost me stacks and being pushed out of the pot by check/minraises and generally the desperation and uncertainty by not knowing what to do in certan spots. What if I fold and lose lots of value because the fish is just trying to outplay me? ?( My mindset seems to be very bad sometimes.
      This is so fucking familiar.. I believe it's smth like gambler instinct :) You know, all these times when you're clearly beat but "villain could be bluffing". I hate myself for that :D
    • AjoPP1
      AjoPP1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2010 Posts: 119
      Originally posted by Bliausmas
      Originally posted by AjoPP1
      Nice post, the thing is that bad beats don't ever make me tilt. I'm not pissed off by someone who calls my 5bet shove with 88 and cracks my AA. It's my stupid calls where I think I'm ahead against opponents' ranges in certain spots which literally cost me stacks and being pushed out of the pot by check/minraises and generally the desperation and uncertainty by not knowing what to do in certan spots. What if I fold and lose lots of value because the fish is just trying to outplay me? ?( My mindset seems to be very bad sometimes.
      This is so fucking familiar.. I believe it's smth like gambler instinct :) You know, all these times when you're clearly beat but "villain could be bluffing". I hate myself for that :D
      We seriously need to work on this or stay fish forever. When I started to grind the micros again 2 weeks ago I said to myself that I would play completely stratightforward and not level myself and it was a winning strategy and first 5k hands were like LOL EZ GAME. Then I started to make looser calls etc because I thought I could soulread and last two sessions cost me 5 BI(however some of it were bad beats). Nevertheless, I need to give this complex play on NL2 and just play fit or fold with an occassional bluff and semibluff here and there. :f_o:
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      Originally posted by AjoPP1
      Originally posted by Bliausmas
      Originally posted by AjoPP1
      Nice post, the thing is that bad beats don't ever make me tilt. I'm not pissed off by someone who calls my 5bet shove with 88 and cracks my AA. It's my stupid calls where I think I'm ahead against opponents' ranges in certain spots which literally cost me stacks and being pushed out of the pot by check/minraises and generally the desperation and uncertainty by not knowing what to do in certan spots. What if I fold and lose lots of value because the fish is just trying to outplay me? ?( My mindset seems to be very bad sometimes.
      This is so fucking familiar.. I believe it's smth like gambler instinct :) You know, all these times when you're clearly beat but "villain could be bluffing". I hate myself for that :D
      We seriously need to work on this or stay fish forever. When I started to grind the micros again 2 weeks ago I said to myself that I would play completely stratightforward and not level myself and it was a winning strategy and first 5k hands were like LOL EZ GAME. Then I started to make looser calls etc because I thought I could soulread and last two sessions cost me 5 BI(however some of it were bad beats). Nevertheless, I need to give this complex play on NL2 and just play fit or fold with an occassional bluff and semibluff here and there. :f_o:
      Very true, especially this type of play is the most profitable. I played some really solid poker these days but yesterday after a long session I felt that "gambling shit" again and after dumping 2,5BI in a single hand where I 100% knew I'm beat in real time, but made a uber-stupid call, I decided it just can't last no longer. I'll try shorter sessions, more days off poker, like a planned schedule - if I play today, I play for 1 hour (125 FT points actually, it takes about 1 hour to collect :f_eek: ), if I don't play - I don't play. Well, I hope it will work in order to make bad habits dissappear.
      Maybe your cause for this bad play is also too long sessions or smth similar related to over-play?
    • AjoPP1
      AjoPP1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2010 Posts: 119
      I don't know why it is so deeply rooted in us that eventhough we know we are beat we still make a stupid call from time to time. Well, I've set a goal to play at least 1k hands every day I play which isn't that hard since I multitable(but I can't do this everyday because of school) but I'm deffo gonna play shorter sessions, say 1 hour of 10 tabling, 30 minutes break and again. I think I played for two-2,5 hours straight yesterday and it led to autopilot and overall fishiness. But it's good that I don't run hot and actually have to pay for my mistakes, because I can comfortably try to root them out before shooting for a higher limit.
      =)
    • Jim4rdo
      Jim4rdo
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2010 Posts: 1,252
      So true @ the "feeling".

      The thing which sounds weird, but helped me so much at the start was calling those...

      Times when pre-flop I had raised JJ, got re-raised all in, and i sat there for about 10 seconds thing, hmm, I think he probably has QQ+, so i'm beat, but maybe he isn't, so i should call anyway. Surprise surprise he had higher cards, and I lost.

      It helped me though, because I learnt to trust my instinct a bit more, and think a bit more clearly. I went straight down to -10$ or so by calling stupid hands like that. Since then I've built myself back up slowly but surely, and those situations before where I made the calls has helped. Got to experience it for yourself before you learn, I think anyway! :]
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      Yeah, the same problem: too much - too bad. I believe that forcing yourself to play your A game constantly should make bad habits go away. Of course, by "forcing" I mean finding your optimal time for a session, taking breaks when needed (without any harm to BR), etc, not playing 20 hour sessions :D
      Best of luck with that!
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      Originally posted by Jim4rdo
      So true @ the "feeling".

      The thing which sounds weird, but helped me so much at the start was calling those...

      Times when pre-flop I had raised JJ, got re-raised all in, and i sat there for about 10 seconds thing, hmm, I think he probably has QQ+, so i'm beat, but maybe he isn't, so i should call anyway. Surprise surprise he had higher cards, and I lost.

      It helped me though, because I learnt to trust my instinct a bit more, and think a bit more clearly. I went straight down to -10$ or so by calling stupid hands like that. Since then I've built myself back up slowly but surely, and those situations before where I made the calls has helped. Got to experience it for yourself before you learn, I think anyway! :]
      I agree, reading hands of other players is one thing, but when you get your own ass kicked is whole another thing. It helps to reduce the urge to gamble.. well, mostly :D
    • AlexandraAndrea
      AlexandraAndrea
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 6
      agree with ' feeling'
      the same here, i was playing live last nite, and was playing like a fish :D - came back home busted out of the tourney, so mad at myself, the last hand got all in wit 77, and i knew the guy who shoved only does that with QQs or better. I knew! he even told me that he has a pair!!! why oh why would u call with 77 ?(
    • YinYangS
      YinYangS
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2010 Posts: 1,077
      I'm happy to see people commenting on my post. =)

      I had this situation one time.
      • Blinds is just 30/60
      • Guy from early position min-raised to 120.
      • I thought it was pretty odd. I felt he has a very good hand.
      • I got pocket 10 on late position. I decided to just call it.
      • Blinds called. Flopped 5 6 6
      • BB bets 60. Original raiser just called!
      • I felt he really has a good hand but thought I don't have much of a choice here. So I moved all-in.
      • The guy called and showed Aces!
      • And there I go. My "instincts" were right. But the guy is playing it like a fish.


      Comments on that?
    • Jim4rdo
      Jim4rdo
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2010 Posts: 1,252
      Exactly yinyang.

      But now, if the same situation happened again, would you move all in with your 10's? Or would you continue calling, or simply fold since you know you're beat?

      Now you've had that experience, you start to realise what people might have, and when to fold i think :]
    • YinYangS
      YinYangS
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2010 Posts: 1,077
      Originally posted by Jim4rdo
      Exactly yinyang.

      But now, if the same situation happened again, would you move all in with your 10's? Or would you continue calling, or simply fold since you know you're beat?

      Now you've had that experience, you start to realise what people might have, and when to fold i think :]

      how about those situations where my instincts tell me,
      • i know i'm ahead against this guy but i really feel that i would get bad beat.
      • i would still call and then again, my instincts were right. LOL


      comments on that? hahaha
    • Jim4rdo
      Jim4rdo
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2010 Posts: 1,252
      I don't think you should ever worry about getting bad beat, because in the long term you win money from it, so if you think you are ahead go with it?
    • YinYangS
      YinYangS
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2010 Posts: 1,077
      Originally posted by Jim4rdo
      I don't think you should ever worry about getting bad beat, because in the long term you win money from it, so if you think you are ahead go with it?
      the thing here is, i felt that i was gonna get bad beat, therefore losing the hand.
      so? kinda funny? hahaha ^_^
    • 1
    • 2