dry/drawy boards

    • gordy1957
      gordy1957
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2010 Posts: 325
      I have just downloaded the MSS charts and noticed that you have to make a judgement wether to Cbet if you miss the flop.
      How about a program to train you to do this,it should be simple enough there arent many starting hands and you could either have to decide to Cbet or check or what kind of board it is.
      cheers Gordy
  • 8 replies
    • Jim4rdo
      Jim4rdo
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2010 Posts: 1,252
      Hey dude,

      I'm not amazing, but thought I'd put my opinion in anyway, since if it's wrong hopefully I'll get corrected and learn from it.

      But my thoughts are: I think this topic is more a learn from experience one, and you can't really be taught it by a program, unlike the push or fold stage etc.

      A lot of it can depend on your opponent too. If you notice your opponent likes to limp a lot and see the flop, I would think c-betting is often a good choice, since more often than not he will fold (again make notes?), and the times when he calls/re-raises you know he probably has a stronger hand or is drawing.

      And for example if you have AK or something similar, raised 4/5x before flop and get called, the chances are if a tight player then he has higher pocket pairs or overcards, so on a low flop with maybe some draws, betting out is a good idea, because you have the fold equity if he's missed the flop, but you also have a chance to hit your higher cards on turn/river.

      Hope you don't mind my thoughts ;>
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      I don't think a program could do the trick also. Because if there were a program like this, it would also be a bot that could make very good profit, right? :)
    • Hadi
      Hadi
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.08.2009 Posts: 12,303
      Honestly, I'm not too sure myself, but maybe one of my colleagues with better knowledge of poker software can answer this ;)

      Hadi
    • gordy1957
      gordy1957
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2010 Posts: 325
      Hi Jim, first if something can be learnt,then it can be taught and computer programs can assist in that and assessing your opponent is a whole different subject.
      Currently I am playing s&g's and if I miss a flop(having the initiative) I always cbet against 1 player.I think this is a big leak and I would like to be a bit more discriminating and sometimes know when a cbet is likely to be called.There is a defination of dry and drawy boards in the MSS and that could be used for the program.
      All I am thinking is that I could practice this one part of my game and see if I am getting better or not and make quicker decisions I am not expecting to learn everything just to improve one small part of the game.
      Bliausmas,I dont think there is any danger of such a program being turned into a bot and anyone who wanted to and had the ability could easily write their own program.
      cheers Gordy
    • OnkelHotte
      OnkelHotte
      Black
      Joined: 16.01.2005 Posts: 18,486
      Hey gordy,

      even if the idea is nice to have an automated assistant for making decisions the effort for any program is extremely high.

      There are hundreds of usecases which _could_ be assisted by hundreds or programs. However this is not managable on the one hand and in general not our goal. We want you guys to understand poker, because at the tables you MUST make your own decision as help of prgrams are forbidden. Thus I think programs make sense if it would not be possible to calculate things yourself, e.g. Equities --> Equilab.

      For the particular problem I am convinced that working with the material, training and using the Strategy and hand evaluation boards in case you are not sure what to do is the superior way to improve your game rather than helper programs.

      best,
      Tobias
    • 0xiide
      0xiide
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2011 Posts: 19
      hello buddy,

      personally i dont think yu need a bot to help you with this obviously there so many different varibles when it comes to cbetting that its pretty trick, but ive learnt that yu can get a pretty good feel from when to do it or not just out of practice, and as the other guy said before it is about the opponent, some will fold most draws, where as some will re raise yu, and yu often get people floating when yu c bet where they call with nothing just to test you which comes into if yu want to fire the second barrel or not, i generally dont c bet aganist more than one player off a draw heavy board as they get the right price to call if others call, but do on a dry board, your table imagine comes into play as well, if your a tight player who doesnt c bet alot yu will get more folded than if yu barrel every street all the time

      hope this helps you a little bit :)
    • gordy1957
      gordy1957
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2010 Posts: 325
      I am not talking about a program to use while playing,I am talking about a program to practice one small part of the game so you can tell if you are getting that part right or not
      cheers Gordy
    • Jim4rdo
      Jim4rdo
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2010 Posts: 1,252
      We realise what you're saying gordy, but c-betting really depends on the opponent, stack sizes, position. I know a simulator could do that, but it's the "real time" you need to learn. Like people have said, just experience and playing will teach you.

      Because even with perfect stack sizes, aggression factors, % odds etc, a program can't tell you the mentality of a player, whether just this once they will call or not, whether they will re-raise you because they realise you fold to that, all those other factors.

      But in the push or fold stage it's just that, push or fold, and doesn't matter if you get called or not because it's just about those 2 pre flop cards.