[NL2-NL10] NL10 AJos IP - played ok?

    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      Hi,

      my first hand on this table and I have accidentally posted in LP. I get AJos and with 2 limpers decide to raise hoping to just take down the pot pre flop.

      iPoker - £0.10 NL - Holdem - 10 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      BTN: £7.07
      SB: £13.06
      BB: £4.95
      UTG: £10.75
      UTG+1: £9.72
      MP: £11.84
      MP+1: £23.33
      MP+2: £16.20
      LP: £21.21
      Hero (CO): £10.00

      SB posts SB £0.05, BB posts BB £0.10, Hero posts DB £0.10

      Pre Flop: (£0.25) Hero has A:heart: J:club:

      fold, UTG+1 calls £0.10, MP calls £0.10, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to £0.60, fold, fold, fold, fold, MP calls £0.50

      One caller more than I would have liked but at least I have position. I have only 6 hands on this guy so he is a complete unknown. I like the flop.

      Flop: (£1.45, 2 players) 2:spade: J:diamond: J:heart:
      MP bets £1.45, Hero raises to £2.90, MP calls £1.45

      He donks the flop and I hesitate - a J will normally just call here (why would a J raise I think) so I raise and he calls.

      Turn: (£7.25, 2 players) 4:heart:
      MP checks, Hero checks

      The turn could give him a flush draw and he checks - I decide to check behind. My raise on the flop now looks like a bluff from a whiffed AK, AQ or similar, and I am hoping to show further weakness with the check on the turn. I want to induce a bluff on the river.

      River: (£7.25, 2 players) A:club:
      MP bets £8.34, Hero calls £6.50

      The trap worked - I hit a boat and he shoves - I naturally call.

      My concern is that I may be showing a bit of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome) here.

      Was my thinking a bit advanced for the micros? Should I have played more straightforwardly and called the flop?

      Any comments would be welcome
  • 8 replies
    • JonikoP
      JonikoP
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2010 Posts: 600
      I prefer to flat call the flop.

      If he has a jack, IP you will still be able to get it in on later streets. If he's on a bluff/overpair he's more likely to fire again on the turn.
    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      My thinking ran something like - a call here screams J, if I call the bet, having raised pre flop, I may as well tell him he is beaten and I will rarely get any more of his chips in the pot anyway. A raise says I want him to go away and may tell him I missed or have 88+, AK, AQ or similar.

      It was a risk as was the check behind on the turn but one that I felt was worth it. He could have folded to the raise or called and then checked turn and river but I have been winning only small pots with hands like this by calling the flop and wanted to take a fresh approach to see how it worked.
    • JonikoP
      JonikoP
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2010 Posts: 600
      After Veriz has commented, I'd be interested to know what he had here.

      My problem with the flop raise is that if he's competant he can't really call it with anything other than Jx or QQ+ unless he thinks you're on a complete bluff. I get your point that you think raising looks bluffy - did you have any reads/stats for making this play?
    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      I only had 6 hands on villan which were while I was waiting the bb to come around.

      He played 50% but that means nothing really. I have had 75/75 stats after one orbit thanks to a succession of good raising hands.

      I will post the result after Veriz's eval.
    • Oly0909
      Oly0909
      Silver
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 843
      Originally posted by JonikoP
      My problem with the flop raise is that if he's competant he can't really call it with anything other than Jx or QQ+ unless he thinks you're on a complete bluff.
      If he's competant he can't have QQ+ here because of preflop action, and if he has Jx why would he donk for full pot? I think it's most likely he has a 2 or PP, and based on river play, I would say A2s :f_biggrin:
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Fagin,

      Just Call the flop, you will just scare away a lot worse pairs there when you raise. You are representing a very strong hand there. Otherwise I'd still be the turn as well like $3 to induce shove or whatsoever and we can easily shove on river. :)

      Best regards.
    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      For those who are interested villan had 6 :club: 6 :heart: .

      I guess I was lucky that he shoved the river with that hand but if he didn't I would certainly have bet.

      On reflection I guess part of the reason I played this hand the way I did was that there were 4-5 regs at the table (regs being those I have over 1500 hands on), whose plays in pots with me show that they are getting to know my game. I am trying to use some slightly different lines at times so as to avoid being too predictable.

      For me the flat call on the flop would have made it too obvious that I had a J as that is the standard line to take there. It certainly is a line I have taken numerous times in the past alongside the bet on the turn when checked to.

      For me part of the reason for playing the micros is to learn the basics but also to try alternative lines that won't cripple my roll or cost me a fortune if they don't work out. I am comfortable with losing pots at this level that cost me a few $ but if I wait until I hit NL100 before trying these lines and they turn out to be terrible then they could potentially cost me 10x as much.

      I agree with Veriz's assessment, most of the time I will scare away worse hands. Most of the time however I have been taking that line of calling the flop and betting the turn when checked to, and no more money goes in from villan. Yes I win a small pot and that is always nice, on this ocaision I decided to try something different in what seemed to be a situation where I had little to lose and lots to gain.
    • valancius
      valancius
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.03.2009 Posts: 65
      To beat any type of poker player, you simply need to be playing 1 level above them. Not 2 or 3, just 1.

      In my opinion min raise on flop is more stronger then call. Got lucky that opponent was donk/fish and you you got his stack in this situation but i think that poker is not about one precise situation so i think you would win less money then you could win if you use this move, although maybe sometimes against some donk/fish type opponents it could be good.