[NL2-NL10] Nl2 Aj

    • adsefghijk
      adsefghijk
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.02.2011 Posts: 247
      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      UTG2:
      $1,92
      Hero:
      $2,06

      0,01/0,02 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.98 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is CO with A:diamond: , J:heart:
      UTG1 folds, UTG2 calls $0,02, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0,10, 3 folds, UTG2 calls $0,08.

      Flop: ($0,23) 6:spade: , 5:spade: , 3:spade: (2 players)
      UTG2 checks, Hero bets $0,15, UTG2 calls $0,15.

      Turn: ($0,53) Q:diamond: (2 players)
      UTG2 checks, Hero checks.

      River: ($0,53) 2:spade: (2 players)
      UTG2 checks, Hero checks.

      Final Pot: $0,53

      I shouldn't have cbet here right?
  • 6 replies
    • Adapter1337
      Adapter1337
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2010 Posts: 734
      Yes check back here is best play.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello adsefghijk,

      While being PFA, I CBet there as well. He is folding a lot of his Calling range and we might even sometimes are ahead of his Calling range on flop. And as well he rather seems to be passive postflop which means that he ain't going to showdown that often. Nice hand! But of course if you think that he is rather a station who Calls you down anyways then you can likely Check behind as well.

      Best regards.
    • Adapter1337
      Adapter1337
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2010 Posts: 734
      Originally posted by veriz
      Hello adsefghijk,

      While being PFA, I CBet there as well. He is folding a lot of his Calling range and we might even sometimes are ahead of his Calling range on flop. And as well he rather seems to be passive postflop which means that he ain't going to showdown that often. Nice hand! But of course if you think that he is rather a station who Calls you down anyways then you can likely Check behind as well.

      Best regards.
      Imo cbet here is bad play, we hate our life anyway 1/3 of times when 4th spade falls + board is someway connected + its low board, i just dont see here much enought folds.
      In this limit they dont fold PP with one spade, we never know how strong our hand is + they like slowplaying + we may be very dead.
      What i want to say is, we make big pot without pot equity and pretty much without fold equity and generally its bad idea.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Imo cbet here is bad play, we hate our life anyway 1/3 of times when 4th spade falls

      So? When even a 4th spade falls, we don't plan to continue anyways. We are going for the fold equity not for the spade or whatsoever. That we hate our life for the spade falling ain't a reason not to CBet there. :)

      + board is someway connected

      So? It might be even good for us. Since he seems to be going rather to showdown with very strong hands, maybe even capable of folding TP such hands just for the reason that the board is so drawy.

      + its low board, i just dont see here much enought folds.

      And explain me why you don't see here not enough fold equity? Give me the ranges you are putting him on that wont make our CBet there profitable.

      In this limit they dont fold PP with one spade, we never know how strong our hand is

      And why do you think a 24% range is only PPs only here? Because he Called you on flop and you saw that?

      + they like slowplaying

      I don't mind since I am anyways taking pot control when EVEN I do hit. I don't have a hand which I am trying to go to showdown anyways. I am trying to gain fold equity.

      + we may be very dead.

      The same as slowplaying. If we even are dead, this ain't a hand which I am really trying to go to showdown and hoping to hit. Although sometimes even our Ace high might be good. :)

      What i want to say is, we make big pot without pot equity and pretty much without fold equity and generally its bad idea.

      I am not trying to build up the pot for equity or either anything else. I am trying to get fold equity there. :) Once again explain me why it's a bad idea. Didn't really get from your whole comments what is your main idea?

      And for conclusion, rather say that our equity ain't really good against his preflop Calling range and we more often are behind than we don't have fold equity.

      And also for conclusion a bit of my calculations, why I'd see Betting there should be profitable in long run.

      EV(Bet) = 40% * (0,23+0,15) + 20% * 0,23 + 40% * (-0,15)
      EV(Bet) = 0,138

      40% - Chance of winning (We putting him ~24% range, even a bit tighter and should have against it such a equity)
      20% - The opponent will fold (Didn't even put that high the % of him folding, 20% or his limping range he should fold at least)

      EV(Check) = 40% * 0,23 + 60% * 0
      EV(Check) = 0,092

      Therefore I'd say that Betting there should be TOTALLY fine. And I didn't say that Checking is wrong. ;)
    • TwiceT
      TwiceT
      Black
      Joined: 15.07.2007 Posts: 4,796
      got linked here. consider myself unexperienced nl2 plr. sample size: 0 hands played lifetime :f_biggrin:


      big mistakes imo:

      I

      " don't mind since I am anyways taking pot control when EVEN I do hit."
      so u are saying u would not bet A or J not spades on turn? - wrong imo. alw b/f for clear value


      II

      cbetting and thinking better hands fold. reason for cbetting = for value vs 1card spade draws that dont beat AJ high + for cheap sd maybe + for getting him off some eq share.
      i doubt he is calling worse hands often enough AND NOT bluffing us of on somer rivers with worse hands to make it a +ev value cbet longterm tho.
      and he is just never (k, say rly rarely) folding any better hand than AJ on flop






      my line:
      85%: vs most plrs: check back flop, planning on giving up. vbet any A or J non spades ofc t+r

      15%: cbet vs f+t cally types with low wts. fire 3 barrels if no spades hit. any spade i dont bluff on later streets
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      " don't mind since I am anyways taking pot control when EVEN I do hit." so u are saying u would not bet A or J not spades on turn? - wrong imo. alw b/f for clear value

      Non-spades, of course I am betting for free showdown and as well for protection. That was also my 1st plan with betting on the flop. I was more likely talking about spade one, since there wont any worse Call you anyways.

      15%: cbet vs f+t cally types with low wts. fire 3 barrels if no spades hit. any spade i dont bluff on later streets

      with low wts - that's exactly the case with the opponent right now. :) Of course we don't have that big sample size but for given his VPIP, he has been playing at least some hands which should give an overview of his WTS.

      i doubt he is calling worse hands often enough AND NOT bluffing us of on somer rivers with worse hands to make it a +ev value cbet longterm tho.

      Those players just aren't capable of bluffing on river, they more often are having a made hand for example if we bet on turn with the J-non spade.

      And you are saying that my calculations are totally wrong? You wouldn't think that he is folding at least 20% of the time from his VPIP range? And you are saying that we ain't getting 40% equity vs his preflop range?