The Demon Finally Found Me

    • Kodark
      Kodark
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2011 Posts: 249
      $0.02/$0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      MP3 = ($4.93)
      CO = ($12.29)
      BU (Hero) = ($3.20)
      SB = ($7.28)
      BB = ($5.25)
      UTG1 = ($4.87)
      UTG2 = ($1.67)
      MP1 = ($5.42)
      MP2 = ($8.50)

      Preflop: Hero is BU with J, J.
      UTG1 raises to $0.20, 3 folds, MP3 calls $0.20, CO folds, Hero calls $0.20, SB folds, BB calls $0.15.

      Flop: ($0.82) J, T, 8 (4 players)
      BB checks, UTG1 bets $0.10, MP3 raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $3.00(All-In), BB folds, UTG1 calls $2.90, MP3 raises to $4.73, UTG1 calls $1.67.

      Turn: ($13.22) 8 (3 players)


      River: ($13.22) 9 (3 players)


      Final Pot: $13.22.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows a full-house, jacks full of eights(J J).
      MP3 shows four of a kind, eights(8 8).
      UTG1 shows a straight, queen high(Q Q).

      MP3 wins with four of a kind, eights(8 8).


      :/
  • 29 replies
    • Kodark
      Kodark
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2011 Posts: 249
      Known players: (?)
      vp$ip BBvsSteal ORL RaisePreflop
      Position: Stack
      AF W$SD WTS hands
      18 - 0 6
      SB: $5.58
      - 100 13 49
      33 0 - 0
      BB: $1.64
      0.5 50 67 12

      Hero: $1.76



      0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.98 by http://www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BU with A, A (Comment)
      5 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, SB calls $0.13, BB calls $0.10.

      Flop: ($0.45) 9, 6, 4 (3 players) (Comment)
      SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.45, SB folds, BB calls $0.45.

      Turn: ($1.35) J (2 players) (Comment)
      BB checks, Hero raises $1.16 (All-In), BB calls $1.04 (All-In), Hero gets uncalled bet back (All-In).

      River: ($3.43) 4 (2 players) (Comment)


      Final Pot: $3.43

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows (Ah Ad)
      BB shows a full-house, nines full of fours (9s 9d)

      BB wins with a full-house, nines full of fours (9s 9d)


      And this hand too
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      1. You shoved with the best hand (and you knew that), being way ahead. How is this a bad play? ;)

      2. Standard too. If you would get a raise on the flop, you could consider folding (but it absolutely doesn't mean you always have to do that), but now there's not much you can do differently.
    • Kodark
      Kodark
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2011 Posts: 249
      and the second hand?

      I didnt have nuts there and was punished by a slowplayed set outplayed massively lol?

      Just having a bad night tonight.

      hm ok thanks for input
    • OZSA
      OZSA
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.05.2009 Posts: 804
      1. u can either raise up to 1$ or shove it, u get the same result, its not a bad play.
      2. ur stack is so small u cant even think about folding those AA, like this is standard
    • Kodark
      Kodark
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2011 Posts: 249
      Known players: (?)
      vp$ip BBvsSteal ORL RaisePreflop
      Position: Stack
      AF W$SD WTS hands

      Hero: $1.6

      58 - 100 17
      MP3: $11.58
      2.0 100 67 12


      0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.98 by http://www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is UTG2 with K, K (Comment)
      Hero raises to $0.20, 2 folds, MP3 raises to $0.65, 4 folds, Hero raises to $1.60 (All-In), MP3 calls $0.95.

      Flop: ($3.27) 9, 7, 6 (Comment)
      Turn: ($3.27) Q (Comment)
      River: ($3.27) 3 (2 players) (Comment)


      Final Pot: $3.27

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows (Kh Kd)
      MP3 shows three-of-a-kind, sevens (7h 7c)

      MP3 wins with three-of-a-kind, sevens (7h 7c)


      Now this just happened....
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      It's inevitable to run into slowplayed monsters from time to time, but that's variance. Your value betting was really good in that hand, and in the long run you will win in these type of situations as your opponents will call you down with A9, T9s-J9s, TT-JJ, or even worse hands.

      About the last hand: you went all-in preflop with KK. It's ridiculous to even ask if this is correct play :)
    • Kodark
      Kodark
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2011 Posts: 249
      Just getting frustrated playing MSS which means im so passive most of the time losing my blinds a lot.

      Most Monster hands im getting never make it to flop let alone showdown so im hardly ever doubling up, maybe once an hour.

      It seems i just dip from $40 to $50 never breaking these limits in my bankroll, meanwhile i watch people at my tables just earning and earning, i must be doing something wrong.

      im sorry but is the all in pre flop correct? i really dont know chart says yes but cant tell lol really questioning myself.
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      You better post some really problem hands, because all these that you posted were simply coolers. Top set on the flop, KK preflop - think yourself, how else could you play that? Fold top set while being afraid of bad beat? Your thinking must be oriented to good decisions, not money won. That means that if you shove preflop with 22 and suckout against AA - that's still bad play, no matter that you win. So - stop blaming yourself where that's not needed and analyse some difficult DECISIONS ;)

      All-in with KK is always correct, no matter what. It's the second best preflop hand after all. Well there are some very rare situations where it's better to smooth call it, but believe me, it's so extremely rare it's not even worth thinking about.
    • Kodark
      Kodark
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2011 Posts: 249
      Stopped playing for now.

      Here is the best critical anaylsis i can do.




      Lost 5 BI's

      Here is my frustration/tilt and deviation from the strict MSS Strategy after those 3 bad beats.

      ___________________________________________________________
      Known players: (?)
      vp$ip BBvsSteal ORL RaisePreflop
      Position: Stack
      AF W$SD WTS hands

      Hero: $1.98

      22 - 0 7
      BU: $7.41
      - - 0 27


      0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.98 by http://www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is UTG1 with K, T (Comment)
      Hero raises to $0.15, 5 folds, BU raises to $0.25, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.10.

      Flop: ($0.57) J, 8, 5 (2 players) (Comment)
      Hero checks, BU bets $0.57, Hero folds, BU gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $0.57
      ____________________________________________________

      Here i got impatient and raised preying my K10o hits. Loss of 5BB.
      .........................................................................................................

      Known players: (?)
      vp$ip BBvsSteal ORL RaisePreflop
      Position: Stack
      AF W$SD WTS hands
      15 100 - 11
      SB: $5.22
      2.0 33 100 27
      22 - 67 22
      UTG2: $5.32
      0.5 - 0 27

      Hero: $2.18

      20 100 0 4
      MP2: $5
      2.5 67 38 49


      0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.98 by http://www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A, T (Comment)
      UTG1 folds, UTG2 raises to $0.20, Hero calls $0.20, MP2 calls $0.20, 3 folds, SB raises to $1.05, BB folds, UTG2 calls $0.85, Hero folds, MP2 calls $0.85.

      Flop: ($3.40) K, T, 7 (3 players) (Comment)
      SB bets $2.1, UTG2 folds, MP2 calls $2.10.

      Turn: ($7.60) 3 (2 players) (Comment)
      SB checks, MP2 raises $1.85 (All-In), SB calls $1.85.

      River: ($11.30) 3 (2 players) (Comment)


      Final Pot: $11.30
      __________________________________________________________
      Here i limp in with A10o preying to see the flop but am quickly outpriced and must fold losing 4BB
      ....................................................................................................................

      (Comment)
      Known players: (?)
      vp$ip BBvsSteal ORL RaisePreflop
      Position: Stack
      AF W$SD WTS hands
      18 100 50 15
      MP1: $12.11
      6.0 50 29 73

      Hero: $1.87

      19 25 29 7
      CO: $5
      1.3 40 31 111


      0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.98 by http://www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, K (Comment)
      2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.20, Hero raises to $0.35, MP3 folds, CO calls $0.35, 3 folds, MP1 calls $0.15.

      Flop: ($1.12) Q, 4, 3 (3 players) (Comment)
      MP1 bets $0.7, Hero folds, CO raises to $1.40, MP1 calls $0.70.

      Turn: ($3.92) 8 (2 players) (Comment)
      MP1 checks, CO checks.

      River: ($3.92) J (2 players) (Comment)
      MP1 bets $1, CO raises to $2.00, MP1 folds, CO gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $5.92
      ________________________________________________________

      Here i raise with AKs Preflop as i should but when i see the flop and get a 50% pot raise i know im done and fold. Losing 7BB.
      ................................................................................................................

      Known players: (?)
      vp$ip BBvsSteal ORL RaisePreflop
      Position: Stack
      AF W$SD WTS hands

      Hero: $2.41

      15 100 13 10
      MP1: $5.79
      1.2 50 44 92


      0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.98 by http://www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with T, T (Comment)
      2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.15, 5 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, MP1 calls $0.15.

      Flop: ($0.62) K, 9, 5 (2 players) (Comment)
      Hero checks, MP1 checks.

      Turn: ($0.62) J (2 players) (Comment)
      Hero checks, MP1 bets $0.15, Hero folds, MP1 gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $0.62
      ____________________________________________________________

      Here i have pocket 10's raise and am called. Flop arrives and MP1 raises me, having lost confidence in myself by this point and the fact he called my raise pre flop i fold, down another 6BB
      ........................................................................................................................

      (Comment)
      Known players: (?)
      vp$ip BBvsSteal ORL RaisePreflop
      Position: Stack
      AF W$SD WTS hands

      Hero: $1.95

      31 - 50 25
      MP1: $5
      1.0 100 25 16


      0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.98 by http://www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A, T (Comment)
      2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.15, 4 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BB folds, MP1 raises to $0.90, Hero calls $0.60.

      Flop: ($1.85) Q, 9, 7 (2 players) (Comment)
      Hero raises $1.05 (All-In), MP1 calls $1.05.

      Turn: ($3.95) 5 (Comment)
      River: ($3.95) J (2 players) (Comment)

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      MP1 shows a pair of queens (Ah Qd)
      Hero shows (As Ts)

      MP1 wins with a pair of queens (Ah Qd)




      Final Pot: $3.95
      ____________________________________________________________
      Here i have A10s good enough to defend my SB but when reraised MSS dictates i fold, i was not in the mood for that and called. In first position i bluff thinking my opponent missed the queen, was wrong. - 39BB.
      ........................................................................................................................
      Known players: (?)
      vp$ip BBvsSteal ORL RaisePreflop
      Position: Stack
      AF W$SD WTS hands

      Hero: $1.95

      15 100 13 10
      MP3: $6.24
      1.2 50 44 92
      25 0 0 16
      CO: $5.12
      1.0 40 71 32


      0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.98 by http://www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 9, 9 (Comment)
      4 folds, MP3 raises to $0.15, CO raises to $0.50, BU folds, Hero calls $0.48, 2 folds.

      Flop: ($1.20) Q, 6, 3 (2 players) (Comment)
      Hero raises $1.45 (All-In), CO calls $1.45.

      Turn: ($4.10) 5 (Comment)
      River: ($4.10) K (2 players) (Comment)


      Final Pot: $4.10

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      CO shows a pair of aces (Ad Ac)
      Hero shows (9h 9d)

      CO wins with a pair of aces (Ad Ac)
      ___________________________________________________________
      Here i call my pocket 9's. Meet a flop that has a Queen again, i didnt put my opponent on a queen and figure he had an Ace or King and some other card. As i'm first to act in flop i shove all in to find out he is holding pocket aces. -39BB
      ...................................................................................................................



      So as you can i see deviated from MSS because of my bad beats and no pot wins. Apart from these listed there was a few limps of 0.05 that where folded when raised/missed flop.
    • Kodark
      Kodark
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2011 Posts: 249
      Here are a couple of perhaps more interesting hands.



      Known players: (?)
      vp$ip BBvsSteal ORL RaisePreflop
      Position: Stack
      AF W$SD WTS hands
      12 100 17 11
      SB: $5.02
      - 100 17 75

      Hero: $1.85



      0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.98 by http://www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is CO with K, Q (Comment)
      5 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, BU folds, SB raises to $0.45, BB folds, Hero calls $0.30.

      Flop: ($0.95) T, 5, 4 (2 players) (Comment)
      SB bets $0.6, Hero raises to $1.40 (All-In), SB folds, Hero gets uncalled bet back (All-In).

      Final Pot: $2.15


      Was this the correct play? i mean if he had a high pair i would have been toast. But i shoved for a reason i will explain below.

      ___________________________________________________________

      Seems i lost the other hand but let me say from memory

      I hold pocket jacks

      I raise am reraised and call

      We enter flop which is something like 10 7 4 rainbow

      My opponent raises and i go all in
      He calls

      Turn : 8
      River : i forget not important now

      Now i shoved all in to find a strait this guy was a loose player and beat me. Did i make the correct decision?

      Another thing im noticing is ALOT of the players are meeting me in flop and raising when i have hit something like middle pair. I am folding every time and im wondering is this because they know that i will fold?

      Like i see some people use software that gives them stats on other players in the room, should i be using this? And are they using it to take advantage of how tight i am? They simply raise and know if i reraise they should have the nuts or fold. 8/10 i dont have the confidence to call the raise and they probably end up in profit from that.
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      Oh I just noticed you play with only 40BB stack... When you told midstack I thought about smth like 60-80BB :D

      Well personally I don't have much experience with that short stacks, but I don't actually like your 3bet call with KQ - better ship it preflop or fold it. You won't hit often enough to make the call profitable, and even if you hit top pair K or Q - you might still be dominated.

      The same goes with KT - this is weak hand, I don't think it's even worth to open raise it, rather fold it. But anyway, if you raised, and faced a 3bet - fold it then. Well, you faced a min3bet - you probably get kinda correct odds to call - well ok, lets call, but proceed with extreme caution if you hit a top pair. If you hit the monster - you know what to do :f_biggrin:

      Do the MSS strategy say that you should min3bet everytime? I strongly doubt about it, because you just give the correct odds to call with basically anything they open raise. You had AK when you did that once - you should rather 3bet strong, because you definitely want to end all-in preflop with that hand having 37BB. I would 3bet it 5 times and shove any flop.

      Same goes with TT hand - 3bet it strong, you want to shove with it. Definitely cbet that flop.

      And the same with AT - I'd rather fold it to a raise, but I'm not sure about MSS, that's just my opinion that might be wrong.

      Call 3bet with ATs - very bad. You're basically praying to hit at least 2pair, because if you hit top pair and your opponent wants to shove here - you're dead most of the time, the rest of the time your opponent will simply fold and you'll win a small pot. Calling and praying to hit is a terrible mistake and you shouldn't ever do that. I know how nasty it is because I have the same problem myself - when I start tilting my call 3bet percent increases dramatically as I start douching around like "ok lets call a 3bet with 86s, I'll be rich if I hit smth". But that's really stupid thinking and stupid play :)

      JJ hand - yup, well played.

      Generally speaking - you should make your preflop range stronger. That means - make your opponents call, be the aggressor, try to call yourself as little as possible. Don't call raises with marginal hands, like KT or QJ, because they will only put you in trouble. It's ok to raise with them, but you should call with very little hands. I think MSS include basically no calling preflop, am I right? :) Call 3bets - never ever again. Ship it or fold it. While playing MSS I strongly believe there are no hands profitably playable by calling 3bets. Being 100BB+ deep is another story - you can get correct odds to call with some pocket pairs or another marginal hands, but in MSS - no way.

      And about the software - well at NL5 it's not really necessary, but at NL10 I'd recommend to use it as the regulars are slightly better, there are more of them, and fishes are a little bit smarter. If you're gonna use it - don't overload your mind - start with 3 basic stats (VPIP/PFR/AF), when you will get used to this, add some more stats you think would be useful, and so on.

      Good luck! :)
    • Kodark
      Kodark
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2011 Posts: 249
      I really appreciate you taking the time to write that and you are right. I shouldn't be a drone to 3bets and ship it or fold it absolutely.

      Me calling 3bets with A10 is me on tilt really.

      After my downswing i decided to get my confidence back up by playing in NL2 for an hour or so made about 2 NL5 BI's from there and felt alot more confident again.

      Moved back up to NL5 just now after chilling out for a while and watching some poker after dark and had some better luck when i went back to the NL5 tables.

      So the story has a happy ending as shown below.

      Again another day of learning with thanks to you. I learned a bit about downswing and that MSS wasn't unbeatable every hand but so long as i stuck with it and didnt tilt i would come true eventually.

      I stopped playing with JTo A10o K10o K9s etc, i really must remember that the reason i see these hands played on tv is because of the lower amount of players and the fact that they know how to play them.

      anyways here is my final session for the night.
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      No problem mate, glad to help you.
      I used to watch poker after dark before and well, it doesn't really help to improve in micros :D I'd even say opposite - it just confuses you.
      Your graph is stable and nice now - just keep it that way, there's no need to put some more extra-mega-turbo-strategies :)

      Good luck!
    • Kodark
      Kodark
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2011 Posts: 249
      Known players: (?)
      vp$ip BBvsSteal ORL RaisePreflop
      Position: Stack
      AF W$SD WTS hands

      Hero: $1.61

      36 - 60 14
      MP1: $7.53
      5.5 - 0 42


      0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (7 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.98 by http://www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, 8 (Comment)
      MP1 raises to $0.15, 5 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, MP1 calls $0.10.

      Flop: ($0.52) J, T, 9 (2 players) (Comment)
      Hero checks, MP1 bets $0.52, Hero folds, MP1 gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $0.52


      I guess i should have stayed in this pot? I was nervous and never really like OESD as it feels too much like praying for a card.
    • SvenBe
      SvenBe
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 19.04.2006 Posts: 13,116
      he Kodark,

      I moved your thread to Self Study and management forum, but feel free to let me know when to move it to the Your success-forum :-)
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      No point to 3bet with 88, especially min3bet. Now you just got yourself in a nasty spot. I'd rather smooth call it preflop and go for a set.
      And as played - yup, probably fold, you don't get the right odds to draw, moreover it's a bottom end of a straight, which means that even if you hit your straight it might be beaten by higher straight.
    • Kodark
      Kodark
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2011 Posts: 249
      haha thanks SvenBe :)

      Ye been reviewing my hands best i can and im limping with pocket 10's and below unless i'm in LP

      Also been playing AQ and KQ a bit more often with some decent results. I fold to reraises but but for 15cents its worth seeing these flops, especially when they are suited.

      Also been trying to maxmise my monsters today. Usually with pocket K's or A's i raise, reraise, all in. But ive been taking advantage of people trying to bully me out the flop because of my tightness by just slowly calling them, so long as streets are under control and i dont see a flush/strait coming. If i do its all in and force them to gamble or fold.

      This has been having some nice results.

      Had a few funny moments playing today also once i shipped it with pocket jacks. Flop lands me a set but my opponent called my all in pre flop and hits a wheel on the river. Funny thing is she said sorry after that then called my All in in a later hand with a 72o lol. Guess it was her apology.

      Then i had one of those moments where its kicking off at all 4 tables and folded the nuts when flop and turn had 8Q88 and i had the Queen. Someone bet min and for some reason i clicked the fold button lol!
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      I'd fold in the very 1st hand, they always either already have a straight or make quads on the turn or river.
    • Zhusy
      Zhusy
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2010 Posts: 382
      Originally posted by Bliausmas
      No problem mate, glad to help you.
      I used to watch poker after dark before and well, it doesn't really help to improve in micros :D I'd even say opposite - it just confuses you.
      Your graph is stable and nice now - just keep it that way, there's no need to put some more extra-mega-turbo-strategies :)

      Good luck!

      Micro limits and Poker after dark are like heaven and earth. Same goes for online poker and live poker.
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