What do you look for in a table?

    • Helipacter
      Helipacter
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.07.2010 Posts: 474
      Hi,

      I got in a session today where the average VPIP at the table was ~60, the PFR was in single figures for everyone and the AF was <1 for everyone. So it was pretty fishy. (For the record, my stats are 23/14/1.5.)

      My question is, when selecting a table, do you go for the fishiest around, or a blend of Fish/Regs/Rocks?

      I'm asking this here in FL (rather than general discussion) because I think that there are certain aspects to FL that should be important with regards to table selection. For example, if you choose a super-fishy table, then you run the risk of never being able to bet a number of guys off a hand when you need to protect, or not being able to get HU with a limper because nobody will fold to aggro.

      I know the flip side of the argument, that these guys will pay you off over an extended period of time, but when there's a high concentration of them at one table is it better to quit it and look for a more blended table, knowing that you'll get your chance with the other "VPIP ~60s" individually in the future, or do you dive right in?

      Thoughts please gents!
  • 8 replies
    • nathanrenard
      nathanrenard
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 816
      Why on earth you would want to play against regs and rocks? Search always for the fish, nom nom nom. :s_cool:
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      I don't really play much fixed limit.

      But I am pretty sure having an entire table full of donks can result in higher variance.

      Sometimes it really is just better to have 2 or so (for SH) donks imo. Easier to isolate and play HU.

      AA isn't that useful if you are always forced to play it 6way. You have the best starting hand but are an underdog to the table.
    • Helipacter
      Helipacter
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.07.2010 Posts: 474
      I'm just looking for opinions about table selection.

      Playing against regs and rocks isn't so bad if there is about a 40% level of fishiness on the table. You can still get paid off, and when a Reg or Rock joins the hand they're quite easy to play against too.

      Anyway, I'm just hypothesizing that maybe an FL table full of fish can be quite a dangerous prospect. In NL you can size your bet to protect, but with FL it's a different kettle of fish - d'you like what I did there? :s_cool:
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Originally posted by Helipacter
      In NL you can size your bet to protect:
      To some extent this is true.

      The principles still relate because sometimes players won't fold their draws however much you bet. Also you may not be the bettor, but the caller.

      The example I usually give is, supposing you are playing FR nlhe, you are in the BB with pocket aces and every single player before you goes allin. Should you call? Technically, you should, it's a +EV decision. In practice you might decide to fold. The outcome of a call is a system in which your EV is positive but you are likely to lose.

      Assuming you are going to be playing a large sample, perhaps this is no problem. You just keep making this call and eventually you will rake in a 10 way pot. The variance is horrible though.

      It's the same with playing multiway pots in fixed limit. The more players regularly seeing a flop the less likely you are to win. Your EV will still be positive with premium hands however. So technically, if EV is all you care about, you should sit with a table full of donks. But a lot of players will do this without understanding the effect this has on variance.

      Personally I am the type of player that will often sacrifice small amounts of EV to limit variance. It's just a style thing; variance gives me a headache. As such I may even prefer having a nit or two at my tables.

      One final thing to add is, you definitely should appreciate how the relative values of certain hands changes if no-one is folding preflop (i.e big multiway pots). Hands with reverse implieds such as AK and other TPTK hands go down in value, while suited connectors and pocket pairs go up in value.
    • Helipacter
      Helipacter
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.07.2010 Posts: 474

      The principles still relate because sometimes players won't fold their draws however much you bet. Also you may not be the bettor, but the caller.
      Or worse, a bettor with a decent broadway pair, watching 6 fish call you with a non-friendly board!


      One final thing to add is, you definitely should appreciate how the relative values of certain hands changes if no-one is folding preflop (i.e big multiway pots). Hands with reverse implieds such as AK and other TPTK hands go down in value, while suited connectors and pocket pairs go up in value.
      This is incredibly important and something I pay attention to. Though, when I have two pair or even TPTK, I have a problem folding a River following a donk and a re-raise from "air-raisers", even if it completes a Draw . Against decent players its an easy fold, against these guys it's an uncomfortable call.
    • lsobr
      lsobr
      Basic
      Joined: 11.03.2011 Posts: 37
      My first post on this forum :)

      I play Limit 6 players. I like to have a table that is not too agressive and has only 1 or 2 fish. In 6 players game, in a table like that you can easily isolate the fish and double up pretty easy playing mostly against him. If the rest of the table is not too agressive, you can always bluff them away in specific boards.

      But i play 1/2 and 2/4 mostly on Full Tilt. In lower stakes than that is impossible to play the way i said.

      Playing in tables like that will make the variance very, very small if you are a good player.
    • jeangab123
      jeangab123
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.01.2011 Posts: 122
      Agaisnt 8 all in i would probably go all in with aces seeing how a lot of these people are going to block each other ;) There wont be much j+ left in the deck haha :)
    • Boomer2k10
      Boomer2k10
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.09.2010 Posts: 2,551
      Loose Passive play does not increase variance

      Aggression and being in thin spots increases variance

      Yes in loose games you're not going to win as many pots as you would in tight games becasue, surprisingly, you have to beat more players. However the pots you win you have to put in a smaller fraction of the pot.

      Your opponents don't put you in difficult spots and won't make you make the wrong moves that often.

      Give me a table full of loose passives over just about any other table