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[NL20-NL50] SH NL25 AKo - people calling 4bets ip

    • Gabinr1
      Joined: 05.04.2009 Posts: 7,755
      NL Holdem $0.25(BB) Full Tilt
      SB ($8.75)
      BB ($15.31)
      UTG ($21.93)
      Hero ($46.38)
      CO ($23.65)
      BTN ($7.12)

      Dealt to Hero K:spade: A:diamond:

      fold, Hero raises to $0.85, CO raises to $2.40, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $6, CO calls $3.60

      FLOP ($12.35) T:club: T:diamond: J:spade:

      Hero checks, CO checks

      TURN ($12.35) T:club: T:diamond: J:spade: Q:spade:

      Hero bets $6.50, CO calls $6.50

      RIVER ($25.35) T:club: T:diamond: J:spade: Q:spade: 6:diamond:

      Hero bets $13.10, CO calls $11.15 (AI)

      I hate when somebody calls a 4bet preflop. What are they thinking about when they do it? What's their thought process?

      I have AA, let's slowplay.
      I have TT, JJ, QQ, AK, I don't like th go all in here, so I just call.
      I have KQ, AQ, AJ? JTs?

      2. How do you play in 4bet pots oop?

      3. How do you play my hand postflop?
      - do you cbet? what do you do if he shoves?
      - do you cbet? what do you do if he calls and turn is not a Q?
  • 5 replies
    • ragney
      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      Villian stats?

      Don't 4bet him unless you have some history about him. Vs unknowns I'd call it down.

      Flop: Pretty much a shitty flop, without any history I'd just c/f.
      Turn: C/f as well, the board hits his range hard.

      In 4bet pots where the pot is already ~50BB and your stack size is only ~75BB, I'd play it straightforwardly and aggresive
      TpTk -> Bet/shove
      Good draws (it has some fold equity...) -> Bet/shove
      Shit board -> Check/fold
    • utenosmelynas
      Joined: 07.03.2009 Posts: 286
      First, you have to have reason why you 4beting him :)

      Without history or reads it's hard to say his playing patterns.
      Your image plays here big role. I wrote here some explanations etc., but then I deleted them cos I though that we can't guess his playing psychology by air. This thing is doable WHILE playing. By observing and taking information about him. You know, many things depends on your image at the table, maybe your history against him, his notes that he have abt you. If you didn't open few orbits and now when you opened he 3bets you its veeery unlikely that we will found many bluffs in his range. So AK is an easy fold.Maybe it sounds weird that we fold AK preflop, but 4bet oop with AK isn't very good move. IP I would 4bet all day long+mixing with just call. Becouse IP is the spot where I wanna play. Make decision based on what stats they see that you have and what stats they have. This way you can get into their heads. :)

      So. Did we 4bet here like a bluff or like a value hand? If he pushes - what we do
      If we 4bet like a bluff we need 65% folds.
      65%=3,9% of his range. so 6-3,9=2,1. 1.7=AA-QQ/AKs, if we add AKo = 2,6. So do you expect to fold out JJ and AKo?
      In this spot I assumed that your 4bet is bluff.

      Don't take these small edges + when we are talking about allin PF. Variance can he huge if we will start to push every spot like this or same or whatever.
      As long as you don't feel exploited, don't overdo anything. In this spot he had position, so he had more power.
      Also, as I said when we did sweat session: Don't force sitoations :) if you can't think HOW you'll show profit in this or that sitoation just fold this time. take note and in future adjust accordingly if he starts exploit you. =)

      So this is my phylosophy of poker :)

      In this hand if we would talk about post-flop game i would say ch/f flop, ch/f turn. cos his bigger part of range contains TT-QQ and since you have blockers A,K he is less likely to have them. =)
    • Kaitz20
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      It is MP vs CO, so his 3-bet range can be quite wide. If player is aggressive then maybe smt like 15% and if he suspects you may be 4-bet bluffing then he´d shove pf TT+/AK. So hands that he might be calling are generally smt that he doesn´t want to get all-in and sometimes may slowplaying. So very reasonable can be KQs, AQ, AJ, sometimes TJs, QJs
      Since I have initiative I tend usually to c-bet unless I want to play c/f which I´d balance c/rai overpairs
      TTJ board is not great consider his hand range but consider your equity also not terrible. So I think I don´t want to b/f that flop, but by c/rai I might fold out some better hands like 88 and he may easily call worse hands like KQ/AQ, then I think c/rai is one option
      If you c-bet then it depends how much you c-bet. Imo if you bet more than half potsize then you should call shove because of odds and if he just calls then likely I´d shove any turn card, since i have some fold equity+ he might call with worse hands
      If you bet small, like 4-5$ then you can consider b/f
    • purplefizz
      Joined: 12.03.2008 Posts: 4,508
      how about 4betting all in preflop?
      max fold equity + no playing oop + AK is actually a decent hand
    • Kaitz20
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by purplefizz
      how about 4betting all in preflop?
      max fold equity + no playing oop + AK is actually a decent hand
      problme is that you would sometimes want to 4-bet bluff like smt like A5 or maybe any hand that you´re going to open, so you won´t shove then 100bb deep. Also you won´t shove directly on aces/kings, so I think 4-betting is generally better play than shoving.