Why so robotic?

    • Vepof
      Vepof
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2010 Posts: 72
      In all poker forums i participate, there is always the robotic thing...
      About how much to bet in determinated situation, when folding is +EV, when it is not and bla bla bla...They talk about exact numbers "4bb, 1/3 the pot, 1/2 the pot bla bla bla..."

      There is also the "software thing"...

      "Oh, i called because the villain is VPIP 40/35" ..

      I don't see poker in that way, like Doyle says in his book "Poker is a game of people", i mean, you miss a lot of information by trusting a software or in pre-determinated tecniques. I don't think it would happen if you use your brain instead. I believe that even online Poker can be much more exciting if you use your brain and your instincts instead of robotizing the hole thing.
      What is the fun in taking serious decisions based on a software statistics?
      Wouldn't be a lot more "nice" if your mindset was like "What he thinking? What does he wants me to believe? Why did he bet that much?" During a big pot? Instead of reading the files "Tan na na 80% bla bla bla 40%, according to these fucking numbers i should raise"

      Give your opinion.
  • 16 replies
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      folding is never +ev
    • Jaime001254
      Jaime001254
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 366
      folding EV=0

      Doyle is an old man, doesnt even know what a PC is. he is outdated.
      if you play "robotic" you win money.
      winning money is fun.
      you overvalue a lot of information and do stupid things if your mindset is like "What IS he thinking? What does he wants me to believe? Why did he bet that much?".
    • redskwerl
      redskwerl
      Black
      Joined: 03.03.2008 Posts: 3,802
      Originally posted by alejandrosh
      folding is never +ev
      only true if you meant chip ev. i know iknow, lol donkaments
    • redskwerl
      redskwerl
      Black
      Joined: 03.03.2008 Posts: 3,802
      robotic play is
      horribad

      feel based play is
      horribad
    • Vepof
      Vepof
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2010 Posts: 72
      LOL, not really.
      Sorry but YOU'r outdated.

      Doyle do a lot of talking about online play in his book Super System 2, there is also a poker site with his name.

      Serious, the great games of the world are LIVE games, i mean, no HUD in live tables, only you and ur brain...
      And if you knew more about Doyle, his playing style (of course, in his golden days) is very close to Phil Ivey' style of play. If "time" is the matter.
    • bazerk
      bazerk
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.10.2010 Posts: 653
      You could sit there and ask "what is he thinking?", "what does he want me to beleive?" "why is......." oooops your playing online and just timed out. "deal me in"
    • trumanator7
      trumanator7
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2010 Posts: 25
      Fact is, if you play robotically, then you're making the right decisions in the long run, which means more money. Making calls based on maths and stats is the way poker is going these days, or at least online, so get used to it. Besides which, it makes things a ton easier than trying to pick up tells from a guys avatar
    • martisPS
      martisPS
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2009 Posts: 65
      Originally posted by Vepof
      In all poker forums i participate, there is always the robotic thing...
      About how much to bet in determinated situation, when folding is +EV, when it is not and bla bla bla...They talk about exact numbers "4bb, 1/3 the pot, 1/2 the pot bla bla bla..."

      There is also the "software thing"...

      "Oh, i called because the villain is VPIP 40/35" ..

      I don't see poker in that way, like Doyle says in his book "Poker is a game of people", i mean, you miss a lot of information by trusting a software or in pre-determinated tecniques. I don't think it would happen if you use your brain instead. I believe that even online Poker can be much more exciting if you use your brain and your instincts instead of robotizing the hole thing.
      What is the fun in taking serious decisions based on a software statistics?
      Wouldn't be a lot more "nice" if your mindset was like "What he thinking? What does he wants me to believe? Why did he bet that much?" During a big pot? Instead of reading the files "Tan na na 80% bla bla bla 40%, according to these fucking numbers i should raise"

      Give your opinion.
      i agree with you ;] after i have lost my entire bankroll twice, i am trying to not trust in statistics anymore. trying to find my own strategy.Still reading articles, watching videos, but instead of using all this only i am using my own skills witch i got playing poker for 4 years now.
      cheers and good luck at the tables
    • supeyrio
      supeyrio
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 3,106
      why can't use both? lol
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by supeyrio
      why can't use both? lol
      +1

      In a game of incomplete information, the more information you have, the better plays you can make.

      The best thing for the op would be to understand as much of the "bla bla bla" information as possible in order to be better able to know when it's important.
    • Ultifanatic
      Ultifanatic
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.04.2008 Posts: 100
      It is wrong to think that Doyle's "feelings" are not based on historical information that he has gathered in his brain over time playing against the same players.

      It is very true that it is smart to evaluate every hand on it's own merits at the time to make the correct decision, but that decision is partly based on history. If that history comes from playing thousands of hands live against the person, reviewing thier games in videos or numbers in an online program....if you are not using that information, then you are denying yourself an edge over you opponents.

      A proper poker player will evaluate the history that they have, compare that to the current hand, work in any extra variables that have come up and make a concious decision in regards to what the they think is the correct decision.

      Now a weak player that does not understand poker will of course want to take the easy road and have a book, website or someone spell out what they should do in every situation.

      If this is what you mean by robotic....then please close this thread now before some of these weak players figure out that doing this is wrong.
    • evertonroar
      evertonroar
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 737
      i think to make money you have to have both. the stats and some standard plays, plus a brain to think about situations and go against what the stats say at the right time. But when you are sitting at a table and you have 1000 hands of info on the guy to the right of you which say that 98% of the time he steals from the SB and 80% of the time he folds to a resteal, you cant tell me having stats is a bad thing.
    • Darkzzz
      Darkzzz
      Black
      Joined: 28.06.2009 Posts: 184
      It's not an issue wether to trust the stats or not, they are facts.
      And if you think doyle doesn't know these mathematical concepts, than you must be kidding yourself.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      Originally posted by Vepof
      And if you knew more about Doyle, his playing style (of course, in his golden days) is very close to Phil Ivey' style of play. If "time" is the matter.
      lolololo lololo lololo lo lo lo lolo

      Originally posted by redskwerl
      Originally posted by alejandrosh
      folding is never +ev
      only true if you meant chip ev. i know iknow, lol donkaments
      and I play sngs :D , shows how much I know
    • dangermowse
      dangermowse
      Silver
      Joined: 24.10.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Trying to use instincts in every hand online will cost you a ton of money. Doyle would have been talking about REAL poker and it is true in that case, but is getting less and less so these days as more internet players take to the live game and play their mathematically way. From over 100 games a day online I probably make TWO instinctive moves (which usually work out cuz I'm great :D ) but otherwise, forget it!
    • scscpoker
      scscpoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.06.2010 Posts: 121
      I dont understand where did u see that u "must make some move depending on some stats and nothing else" - everyone (who knows what he is talking about) will first ask u about any reads on opponent - stats are just some reads, too. If u know he is folding to c-bet very often, then tell me why to start thinking for hour about "Should I c-bet bluff him?" - Also, if u have read on him that he doesnt fold to C-bet after some timing-tell, like instant-call, then its ofc one more read u should use.

      (Instinctive moves are good if they are based on any true read, like if opponent does something differently than he does usually, but u must know something about why u are adjusting and what do u expect him to do.)

      Poker is just about playing your opponents. If they are easily exploitable, for example 90% fold to 3-bet, then its logically and standard to 3bet them, until they adjust. (If u won't re-adjust to him then, u will become losing, but make sure that he doesnt just hit his 10% hands)

      - I really dont understand what else than 3bet would u want to do with QQ against an opponent who have 50/30 stats and doesnt fold to 3bets, for example :p You could try to catch some "instinct" and fold, because that fish might have also AA xD But imo, thats a bit nonsense.