Few fish in microstakes?

    • JonnyMar
      JonnyMar
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.10.2008 Posts: 68
      I noticed a lot of regulars and few fish at NL4 cash-game tables and also that everyone is playing pretty tight. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the microstakes supposed to be full of fish? Does someone know a good site with a lot of bad players in microstakes NL? What are you thoughts about the strength of the average microstaker at PartyPoker?
  • 30 replies
    • Heffron89
      Heffron89
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2009 Posts: 813
      Ye, with so much information and sites like this out poker is just being tigher and tigher, but u have to table select even at nl4 if u dnot wanna sit with tags...

      But 99% of them are pretty horrible as its only nl4 so I dont mind playing them
    • Supremace
      Supremace
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2010 Posts: 63
      Nl4 is full of fish on party poker, you just need to table select. Even the regs don't have a clue what they are doing. Improve your postflop play as much as you can and you will have a huge edge and a huge boost in your winrate. GL
    • DrHaze
      DrHaze
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.09.2010 Posts: 120
      I had exactly the same problem as you.

      On party poker I was playing -0.06 bb/100 over 30.000 hands of NL4 and on europoker I am playing +44.5 bb/100 over 2.000 hands, playing exactly the same game I used to.

      I know that 2.000 hands is a really small sample, but I'm sure that it isn't completely an upswing :)

      Last week I cashed out of Party Poker and started playing on Europoker and there is a huge difference in fish vs regs over there.

      They don't have a NL2 limit, so the lowest limit over there is NL4 :f_biggrin:

      Maybe you should give it a try!
    • MichaelM
      MichaelM
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2007 Posts: 4,087
      Hey folks,

      I actually would say it depends. If you are aiming at fishes, you might want to check these rooms:

      bwin
      bet365
      Betfair Poker
      and others of course.

      I wouldn't give up on the micros at Party too easily. To have inexperienced players is a quick moneymaker, but you also have to deal with the fact that the education level on poker is increasing in general. We all have to evolve I guess ;)
    • Arron63
      Arron63
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.01.2011 Posts: 86
      I know what you're saying, but it can be a good thing, playing players at different skill levels, can be a good practice before moving up to the larger stakes. :)
    • ComusLoM
      ComusLoM
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2011 Posts: 13
      Not the best example given the discussion is NL4. But on NL2 it's a whole different story. Every session first half hour I take 5-8 tables on 20BB min and go in with Mid Stack 80c. After half an hour if I haven't doubled up on at least 5 tables and reached 2-3 dollars on another it's a bad session. NL2 is so ridiculously fishy. Just be careful of low flops, because most of them call a normal MSS raise with ATC. So just be careful about their draws, once or twice a session I always get screwed over by someone calling a big bet and flopping a set with the worst hands imaginable.

      So yeah, the sea is so full of fish at this level it's near bursting.
    • Jim4rdo
      Jim4rdo
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2010 Posts: 1,252
      Originally posted by ComusLoM
      once or twice a session I always get screwed over by someone calling a big bet and flopping a set with the worst hands imaginable.

      So yeah, the sea is so full of fish at this level it's near bursting.
      How does that work ;)

      to flop a set they've had to have PP, so can't be that bad a hand ^^
    • ComusLoM
      ComusLoM
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2011 Posts: 13
      Originally posted by Jim4rdo
      Originally posted by ComusLoM
      once or twice a session I always get screwed over by someone calling a big bet and flopping a set with the worst hands imaginable.

      So yeah, the sea is so full of fish at this level it's near bursting.
      How does that work ;)

      to flop a set they've had to have PP, so can't be that bad a hand ^^
      Well I mean a straight generally or two pair. This is the type of play to be expected at this level. Note I didn't play perfectly, but observe the play. This is how I win 60% of the pots, although generally with a stronger hand. It is also the main way I lose, when that 63 hits a straight or better.

      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      SB:
      $1.03
      BB:
      $1.82
      Hero:
      $0.83

      0.01/0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (7 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.98 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BU with A:heart: , 8:diamond:
      4 folds, Hero raises to $0.12, SB calls $0.11, BB calls $0.10.

      Flop: ($0.36) T:spade: , 8:heart: , 6:spade: (3 players)
      SB bets $0.26, BB folds, Hero raises to $0.56, SB calls $0.30.

      Turn: ($1.48) 4:club: (2 players)
      SB raises $0.35 (All-In), Hero calls $0.15 (All-In).

      River: ($1.98) A:diamond: (2 players)


      Final Pot: $1.98

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows two-pair, aces and eights (Ah 8d)
      SB shows a pair of sixes (6c 3c)

      Hero wins with two-pair, aces and eights (Ah 8d)

      EDIT: Another hand to prove the point. Again, not perfect play, but you really have to adjust sometimes when you have a read on certain fishes.


      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      SB:
      $1.01
      Hero:
      $0.8
      UTG1:
      $1.11
      MP3:
      $0.42

      0.01/0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.98 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with K:club: , 2:club:
      UTG1 calls $0.02, 3 folds, MP3 calls $0.02, 2 folds, SB calls $0.01, Hero checks.

      Flop: ($0.08) K:heart: , 8:diamond: , 7:diamond: (4 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $0.08, UTG1 folds, MP3 calls $0.08, SB folds.

      Turn: ($0.24) 3:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.17, MP3 raises to $0.32 (All-In), Hero calls $0.15.

      River: ($0.88) 3:spade: (2 players)


      Final Pot: $0.88

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      MP3 shows (9c 6s)
      Hero shows two-pair, kings and threes (Kc 2c)

      Hero wins with two-pair, kings and threes (Kc 2c)
    • pogodon
      pogodon
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2010 Posts: 1,212
      it depends on what people are defining a fish, some people think a fish is someone who plays wild and crazy, i think a fish is just a losing player and well then i think every site has them in micro stakes but there is also alot of NOOOOBS who basicaly play ABC ( not that abc is a bad thing )
    • belayd
      belayd
      Global
      Joined: 17.03.2011 Posts: 1,021
      I've only played about 7K hands on Party at 2NL and 4NL but have to agree with the OP. The Party microstakes tables have a lot of regulars you run into over and over again regardless of which table you play. According to my PT3 analysis, only about 20% of the players I've encountered are fish. The rest are at my skill level or higher.
    • Targetme
      Targetme
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.05.2009 Posts: 1,888
      thing is winning regs dont stay at nl2 , 4 for long its breakeven or small losers who hav some ability your seeing but theres alot of them. Just gotta be better then them and learn post flop skills and honestly just play like a nit 18 table and move up a few limits so you can learn some real lines.


      If I can live off nl25 in Canada eastern europeans probly live off nl4 ;p
      luckily when I started sss was still viable but almost dead and I went straight to nl10 and quickly to nl25 switched to bss with 400 hit a upswing played 10k hands a day my first month had a 2k br as a fish which kept me afloat a few more months till I figured wtf to do.
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,303
      In my experience you do run into the same regs a lot at party.

      1)The player base is smaller than FTP and stars etc.

      2)The bonus system at party encourages you to grind like crazy. If you clear 99% of a $350 bonus and it expires, you get $0. I think people clear x% of a free bonus from party and feel obligated to complete it.

      However, as Targetme says a lot of these regs are not necessarily good players, they are just tight. Due to the increase in educational material out there, a lot of players may have a pretty solid preflop game and give the appearance of being decent.
      However, postflop you should be able to find an edge, especially on the river.
    • belayd
      belayd
      Global
      Joined: 17.03.2011 Posts: 1,021
      Originally posted by Targetme
      If I can live off nl25 in Canada eastern europeans probly live off nl4 ;p
      You make a very good point. A contact I have in the Philippines tells me that you can enjoy a middle-class lifestyle over there for $500 a month and live very comfortably for $1,000 a month. If you play 10K hands a month and average 1 BB/100 then you just need to play 5NL in order to have a middle-class lifestyle in that part of the world. Which is probably why online poker is increasingly attracting players from developing countries.

      Where I live (Toronto) you need about 4K a month in cashouts in order to live a middle-class lifestyle, which means you have to play 40NL at a profitable rate. I envy anyone who can live off 25NL without eating Kraft Dinner five nights a week.
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,303
      Originally posted by belayd

      middle-class lifestyle over there for $500 a month............

      .............. If you play 10K hands a month and average 1 BB/100 then you just need to play 5NL in order to have a middle-class lifestyle
      10k hands @ 5nl @ 1BB/100 = $500???

      Did I miss something here?
    • ragney
      ragney
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      Originally posted by w34z3l
      Originally posted by belayd

      middle-class lifestyle over there for $500 a month............

      .............. If you play 10K hands a month and average 1 BB/100 then you just need to play 5NL in order to have a middle-class lifestyle
      10k hands @ 5nl @ 1BB/100 = $500???

      Did I miss something here?
      100x$0.05 = $5 :f_cool:
    • belayd
      belayd
      Global
      Joined: 17.03.2011 Posts: 1,021
      I got my math wrong. :D
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      Originally posted by Supremace
      Nl4 is full of fish on party poker, you just need to table select. Even the regs don't have a clue what they are doing. Improve your postflop play as much as you can and you will have a huge edge and a huge boost in your winrate. GL
      I dont think you need to table select when you play NL5/4/2 since everybody sucks. :) But yea, improving your skills is def the most important thing you should do.
    • Donkey111
      Donkey111
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2010 Posts: 36
      Originally posted by Alficor1
      I dont think you need to table select when you play NL5/4/2 since everybody sucks. :) But yea, improving your skills is def the most important thing you should do.
      Do you prefer playing against a table full of regs with win rate between -4bb/100 and +4bb/100 (note that without the rake, they are all winners) or select a good table with 2 fish with a win rate of -30bb/100?
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      If you find a NL5/4/2 table full of good regs take a screenshot and post it here. See you in ten years.
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