Video Discussion - Folding the King High Flush

    • DanielUK
      DanielUK
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2010 Posts: 91
      This week we take a look at a classic hand from the 2008 WSOP Main Event Final Table. Ylon Schwarz folds a king high flush to a river bet from Ivan Demidov.

      Watch the video and discuss.



  • 18 replies
    • Kodark
      Kodark
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2011 Posts: 249
      LoL What a read. Im never folding that hand. EVER.
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      look at 1:14 when the turn card comes.. he does some weird thing with his mouth.. kinda looked like a smile that he tried to cover up quickly. That + other reads could have made him think he had the nutflush.


      vs no reads i wouldn't lay this down. But these guys already played quite a few hands against eachother. So it might not be that great of a laydown as it looks but still a good one.
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      looks standard, he beats nothing in demidovs value range based on turn action primarily when the board pairs, and secondly demidov is never bluffing the river when the board pairs.

      if a blank like an 8 hit on the river tho, schwartz would be in a much tougher spot imo since demidov's bluffing range should be much wider.
    • Andyuk18
      Andyuk18
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.12.2010 Posts: 527
      I remember when i saw this for the first time and couldn't believe he folded it. I guess if you think about it, Demidov either has nuts or air there and schwartz decided on the former.
    • Kodark
      Kodark
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2011 Posts: 249
      Originally posted by Hahaownedlolz
      look at 1:14 when the turn card comes.. he does some weird thing with his mouth.. kinda looked like a smile that he tried to cover up quickly. That + other reads could have made him think he had the nutflush.


      vs no reads i wouldn't lay this down. But these guys already played quite a few hands against eachother. So it might not be that great of a laydown as it looks but still a good one.
      Ye i didn't see this. Pretty obvious that he hits his flush its a noticeable "great got the nuts" expression.
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Ya I fold. One time do huge jam to rep 108hh and get Ah to fold obv.
    • MathhNes
      MathhNes
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.08.2009 Posts: 953
      How can this be a hard fold? This is the most obvious bluff catch ever and if he doesnt think demidov is bluffing --> he is beat --> he should fold. Dont understand why people say great laydown, it seems very standard to me.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Standard fold. Even if the board doesn't pair, Demidov isn't raising too many hands for value with 4 to a flush. Maybe Qh and rarely Jh. And it's not the spot to bluff without very good reason. When the board pairs, it's all over.
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      Demidov better be careful next time he plays poker. everyone and their uncle apparently knows his game. :D
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Standard fold. Even if the board doesn't pair, Demidov isn't raising too many hands for value with 4 to a flush. Maybe Qh and rarely Jh. And it's not the spot to bluff without very good reason. When the board pairs, it's all over.

      I agree Demidov would rarely have Jh here :f_tongue:
    • LgWz
      LgWz
      Black
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 7,641
      lol @ commentator saying he might be planning a c/r
    • Steelbrewer
      Steelbrewer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.04.2009 Posts: 580
      Kinda looks like a hand from a million dollar Cash game. Ivey vs Feldman, where there is 5 clubs on the board and a straight flush possibility, Ivey has Ac and Feldman Kc and Feldman calls on the river with his second nut flush.
    • redskwerl
      redskwerl
      Black
      Joined: 03.03.2008 Posts: 3,802
      +1 to it being a standard fold, its not even close.
      he can only beat a bluff, and how often do you think villain has a bluff here?
      lol at the commentators
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Originally posted by Hahaownedlolz
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Standard fold. Even if the board doesn't pair, Demidov isn't raising too many hands for value with 4 to a flush. Maybe Qh and rarely Jh. And it's not the spot to bluff without very good reason. When the board pairs, it's all over.

      I agree Demidov would rarely have Jh here :f_tongue:
      I'd give 1000/1 that Demidov raises Jh here.
    • Steelbrewer
      Steelbrewer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.04.2009 Posts: 580
      Demidov never has Jh here. Why? Because Jh is on the table :f_confused:
    • belayd
      belayd
      Global
      Joined: 17.03.2011 Posts: 1,021
      The video won't load for me. In fact, it doesn't even show. Anyone want to post a HH instead?
    • racenutalways
      racenutalways
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 172
      I would have folded the turn raise. Demodov's check on the flop is a dead give away. He didn't want to call a raise if he C betted to a nut draw. And having to let go of the hand. Had he C-betted 50% pot to the river would have won him the max. He might have gotten a ch/r by shwartz on the turn or river.

      Smooth calling the turn bet and bet/raising the river would have gotten him the extra 4 million+ :f_biggrin:
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      I remember watching this hand like a year ago and thinking "omfg how can he fold that" and now im thinking "how could he ever call?". Nuff said imo.
      Also i dont get it why he calls his raise on the turn and folds a river. His hand cant improve, so calling knowing that he'll fold to another bet is kinda silly. He cant expect him to give him free sd.