I have a problem

    • acceleration123
      acceleration123
      Gold
      Joined: 11.12.2010 Posts: 5,311
      Hi guys,

      I found a HUGE leak in my game. What it is ? No, it is not some technical knowledge I would not have, it´s pure psychology problem and I would like to ask you to give me some ideas how to deal with this, share your experiences with me and so on ...

      I currently play NL10 on FTP and I am going BE here. Previously I played some freerolls, built some small BR on small SNG´s just to bust it :D The same story was with 50$ from PS.com. (what happened with these was I jumped on Higher limits and Tilted that away).

      I took a break after this for about a month and studied much more than previously, I went through my hands, improved my game and then decided to start taking poker seriously. I deposited some 200$ on FTP which is where I currently play like I said before ... Things were going great I made some 60$ in few days and was like: "Woooah Yee ! Till the end of the month I am doubling my roll and will take some shots on NL25. I am definitely beating NL10 ! :D How stupid it was."

      ---

      I am still not losing money, I am now at 205$ + some 20 from first deposit bonus on the way (just few more hands to play) but I am not satisfied with the way I play. Making crying calls against fishes when I KNOW I am behind and trying to bluff them when I KNOW they ain´t gonna fold but I do it either way. Just can´t help it - I rationaly know that folding is the right thing to do at the moment but my mind goes like aah what the hell, I am gonna call, or - I will 2nd barrel here (and I know I shouldn´t !!) or I isolate every fish I meet with speculative hands. I don´t think I am tilting in these situations (or maybe it´s another kind of tilt) but I don´t really go through some bad emotions, I am usually able to say nothing happened, and go on focused on the game after losing big pot. But I want to deal with this !

      Some examples below:

      ---


      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      UTG2:
      $2.93
      MP1 (Hero):
      $20.80
      MP2:
      $8.68
      MP3:
      $4.98
      CO:
      $3.93
      BU:
      $7.08
      SB:
      $10.00
      BB:
      $10.00
      UTG1:
      $10.82


      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A, Q.
      UTG1 folds, UTG2 calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, 6 folds, UTG2 calls $0.40.

      Flop: ($1.15) 7, J, 5 (2 players)
      UTG2 bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.50, UTG2 calls $1.10.

      Turn: ($4.15) J (2 players)
      UTG2 checks, Hero bets $3.00, UTG2 calls $0.93.

      River: ($8.08) 5 (2 players)


      Final Pot: $8.08.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows two pairs, jacks and fives(A Q).
      UTG2 shows two pairs, kings and jacks(K K).

      UTG2 wins with two pairs, kings and jacks(K K).

      dunno what else to say about this one ...


      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      MP3:
      $3.30
      CO:
      $9.97
      BU:
      $10.03
      SB:
      $6.20
      BB:
      $8.05
      UTG1:
      $12.11
      UTG2:
      $11.09
      MP1 (Hero):
      $10.47
      MP2:
      $10.10


      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K, K.
      2 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 5 folds, BB calls $0.30.

      Flop: ($0.85) 9, 8, A (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.80, BB calls $0.80.

      Turn: ($2.45) 8 (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $2.45, BB raises to $6.85, Hero folds, BB gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $4.9.

      This is what I am talking about - I know that betting turn is bad but I do it anyway - even though rationally I know that it´s a mistake.

      The next is one of the worst.


      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      UTG1:
      $10.00
      UTG2:
      $12.41
      MP1:
      $9.85
      MP2:
      $10.68
      MP3:
      $12.34
      CO:
      $10.95
      BU:
      $10.00
      SB (Hero):
      $10.05
      BB:
      $24.66


      Preflop: Hero is SB with J, J.
      4 folds, MP3 raises to $0.40, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BB folds, MP3 calls $1.10.

      Flop: ($3.1) Q, 9, Q (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.00, MP3 calls $2.00.

      Turn: ($7.1) A (2 players)
      Hero bets $4.50, MP3 raises to $8.84(All-In), Hero calls $2.05.

      River: ($22.49) T (2 players)


      Final Pot: $22.49.
      Results follow:

      MP3 shows two pairs, aces and queens(A K).
      Hero shows two pairs, queens and jacks(J J).

      MP3 wins with two pairs, aces and queens(A K).

      Next one. Bluffing on the river after the turn went check-check. I actually remember my thought process here - I target my mouse on the raise button and then it went through my mind - don´t do it, he ain´t gonna fold here like never. But I just couldn´t help it - maybe he is going to fold gonna try it ! It will sound strange but it feels like it´s not me doing this but my somewhat emotional ME inside that is hard for me to control.

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      CO:
      $10.00
      BU:
      $12.26
      SB:
      $9.75
      BB:
      $10.68
      UTG1:
      $21.15
      UTG2:
      $10.95
      MP1:
      $10.15
      MP2 (Hero):
      $10.00
      MP3:
      $24.66


      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J, Q.
      3 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, MP3 calls $0.40, CO calls $0.40, 2 folds, BB calls $0.30.

      Flop: ($1.65) K, T, T (4 players)
      BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets $0.60, CO folds, BB folds, Hero calls $0.60.

      Turn: ($2.85) 3 (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP3 checks.

      River: ($2.85) 3 (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.00, MP3 calls $2.00.

      Final Pot: $6.85.
      Results follow:

      MP3 shows two pairs, kings and tens(A K).
      Hero shows two pairs, tens and threes(J Q).

      MP3 wins with two pairs, kings and tens(A K).


      and the last one


      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)

      Known players:
      UTG2:
      $10.15
      MP1:
      $12.26
      MP2:
      $9.70
      MP3:
      $10.23
      CO:
      $10.80
      BU:
      $10.15
      SB (Hero):
      $10.00
      BB:
      $28.21


      Preflop: Hero is SB with K, Q.
      6 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, BB calls $0.30.

      Flop: ($0.8) 7, 5, K (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.60, BB calls $0.60.

      Turn: ($2) 7 (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.40, BB raises to $2.80, Hero raises to $9.00, BB calls $6.20.

      River: ($20) K (2 players)


      Final Pot: $20.
      Results follow:

      BB shows a full-house, kings full of sevens(K A).
      Hero shows a full-house, kings full of sevens(K Q).

      BB wins with a full-house, kings full of sevens(K A).
      Hero wins with a full-house, kings full of sevens(K Q).

      (obv it doesn´t matter I didn´t lose, what matters is that I made a terrible play)

      THIS IS ONE SESSION ONLY. Can anyone of you give me some advice how to avoid these mistakes ?? Have you ever had the same problem ?? Again I know technically and rationally I shouldn´t do what I did in these situations. That´s not the problem. But I can´t control myself. How can I change this ?
  • 6 replies
    • Kodark
      Kodark
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2011 Posts: 249
      First hand. You raise a huge amount with nothing after he has bet. and he calls. If you think he is just cbeting with air here only raise 80c not 1.50. When he calls you know you are beat. No need to keep up the bluff. Infact you shouldnt even raise once he has bet. Just fold. You can make your money when you hit.

      Also when he minraises preflop and you dont have a pocket pair or AK just call. No need to reraise imo.


      Your leak is massive and obvious, you are betting into pots that you know you are beat on. When you have JJ and overcards arrive on flop. If your bet is called you are beat. Stop raising SO MUCH preflop or on flop. No need to waste that kind of money. make valuebets for about 50% of the pot if they are called and you dont have at least TPTK, an overpair or flush draw you can just fold when called.
    • Tosh5457
      Tosh5457
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.01.2008 Posts: 3,062
      Not much to do, you know what's the problem. Now you have to take control, who controls you, the conscious or unconscious?
    • Kodark
      Kodark
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2011 Posts: 249
      Yep you are in real danger. After reading about you playing higher limits and tilting your starting capital away. You seem to have terrible discipline.


      You need to forget everything you know imo. You need to start at the beginning read the bronze articles and play SSS on NL2 for a week or so. Play exactly how the chart tells you to play. Fold when it tells you to fold. no matter how convinced you are that the villain is bluffing or that you are going to hit the next community card.

      If you cant do this then you will never make money from poker.

      After a week of teaching yourself discipline with SSS you can read into MSS and start playing that. Practise safe BRM.

      If you follow this advice you CAN become a winning player over time.
      I fear if you don't follow this advice You will always be a losing one.


      By the way the ONLY time you should be bluffing on the micros is when blind stealing or claiming an uncontested small pot after a round of checking from villians. When you meet resistance and dont have the goods FOLD.
    • acceleration123
      acceleration123
      Gold
      Joined: 11.12.2010 Posts: 5,311
      Kodark: lol. I wrote I know it´s a mistake, it´s not the lack of knowledge what I think is the problem but it seems to be emotional. When I analyze my hands later I know that those moves are stupid.

      "Or that you are going to hit the next community card". I am no kind of a draw chaser or somewhat like that.



      Btw first hand. I raise those donks often on the flop because so often they are very week. I only agree with that I could raise smaller sth like 1$. The spewy play in that hand is made on the turn not on the flop.

      Tosh: That´s what I mean on the conscious level I know I am supposed to fold, but unconscious keeps me doing otherwise. I guess I just have to take control over that and work through it.
    • Kodark
      Kodark
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2011 Posts: 249
      Thats called tilt when you do stuff like that. Because you are in frame of mind that you dont want to give up what you have in pot. You start thinking things like "havent had a good hand in like 4 orbits" "he might be bluffing this guy who does he think he is prolly some fish noob with 72o"

      I know because ive done stupid sh*t like this. But it just flushes your profits away.

      I think at microstakes just follow simple rules

      If you have the best hand value bet unless you think your opponent can make a better one if he sees more cards, then you shove and force him to make a desision weather to gamble or fold.

      If you dont have the best hand fold. Just because you have position and the villain bet does not always mean he is trying to hide his weakness. And even if he is. You can make a profit by folding and waiting until you have a monster.

      Even if it takes 30 mins at some point you are going to flop a monster and the villain is not going to give up his TPTK, and your patience is going to be rewarded by taking his stack from him
    • acceleration123
      acceleration123
      Gold
      Joined: 11.12.2010 Posts: 5,311
      Originally posted by Kodark
      Thats called tilt when you do stuff like that. Because you are in frame of mind that you dont want to give up what you have in pot. You start thinking things like "havent had a good hand in like 4 orbits" "he might be bluffing this guy who does he think he is prolly some fish noob with 72o"

      I know because ive done stupid sh*t like this. But it just flushes your profits away.

      I think at microstakes just follow simple rules

      If you have the best hand value bet unless you think your opponent can make a better one if he sees more cards, then you shove and force him to make a desision weather to gamble or fold.

      If you dont have the best hand fold. Just because you have position and the villain bet does not always mean he is trying to hide his weakness. And even if he is. You can make a profit by folding and waiting until you have a monster.

      Even if it takes 30 mins at some point you are going to flop a monster and the villain is not going to give up his TPTK, and your patience is going to be rewarded by taking his stack from him
      Thanks. Ye it is probably kind of tilt. (I always thought that tilt is when I just start playing worse starting hands and so on, but it can probably also happen post-flop - which is my case, because even if I tilt, I still follow good starting hands but on the other hand I do this stupid moves once the flop has been delt.)

      However I guess I just need to improve my self-control. When I play my A-game I don´t do these stupid moves. I thought what the reason could be and I found that I used to play even when I was tired so it could be tilt-starter also. I am finding out that in poker, it´s not even that hard to know the right lines and to get the knowledge since it´s everywhere, what is really tough work is to manage yourself as a poker player :) Gonna work on that.