New Dude's SnG Inquiries

    • M1rCea
      M1rCea
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.07.2010 Posts: 936
      Hi and welcome to my thread, appreciate ur time.

      My name's Mircea, I have recently started playing SnG's. Before I invest more time in them, I have some thoughts:

      I. SnG software
      1. Do you use it?
      2. The thing is I don't want to invest in such a program since the very beginning. What would my chances be without it? I saw they enable making reads more easily, see people's stats, etc

      II. Volume
      1. How long until I should start multitabling? I know volume=profit in SnG's, but when I try playing 2 tables for example, I find it hard to take quick decisions in the late phases especially, also I cannot read opponents that well when I have more tables open.

      2. Would moving up in the limits be an alternative instead of multitabling to keep profits going up? Or should I just play one table until i get more experienced?


      That's all I can think of now, guys. Any opinions are much appreciated
      Thanks
  • 7 replies
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      First, you should be able to play without a HUD, but a HUD helps a lot and it is worth it. There are free trials.

      Also work with the PokerStrategy ICM Trainer which is free, and my program ICM Explorer, and SNG Wizard.

      Second, the correct equation is profit = volume * edge. If playing a large volume decreases your edge, and decreases the rate at which you learn, then it can decrease your profit.

      Multitabling is a skill you can develop. (Btw, it's much harder if you are over 30, but you can still learn.) If you are having trouble playing 2 tables at once, then you might focus on playing one table at first, and when you are more familiar with SNGs add a second table. An intermediate step is to watch a second table where you are not playing, and try to take notes on the action there.

      In theory, you might be able to move up in stakes instead of playing more tables. However, it takes a long time to build up your bankroll and to be confident that you are a winning player when you are playing only one table at a time. Also, the amount that experts get from high stakes games is not that much more than what experts get from low to medium stakes games. Some professional players only average $4 per tournament in SNGs with a buy-in over $200, while some players average about $2/tournament in $20 SNGs, and the high stakes player experience much longer downswings. So, I strongly recommend that you develop the ability to multitable. Whether you stop at playing 6 tables at once or 30 is a matter of taste and your skills, but I think everyone can learn to play up to 6 at once.
    • M1rCea
      M1rCea
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.07.2010 Posts: 936
      Pzhon, thanks for the reply.

      I think i just need more practice for multitabling, since i am under 30 (22). That is the difficulty for me right now, reading players from both tables. I will try the idea you suggested, spectating another table.


      Oh, I remembered another 2 topics that made me think
      III. Session Reviewing
      How often do u suggest reviewing SnG sessions?
      Should I review every one of them? Or just those that I consider had interesting situations?

      IV. Math?

      I'm not a math guy, I don't like calculating all the probabilities, the equity and stuff like that. On the other hand, math plays an important part in poker in general.

      Can not playing mathematically correct be compensated in any way in SnG's / poker? Like intuition for instance?
      So does one have any chance in the long run without being a math geek and just knowing the basic math stuff?

      Have a nice day,
      Mircea
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      I don't think you should review everything you play, but you should go through some of your tournaments when you are not in the heat of battle, and see if you agree with your decisions upon reflection. Analyze some of the decisions with programs like SNG Wizard or post hands in the hand evaluation forums.

      Mathematics is very useful to everyone, not just to mathematicians. There are great tools like PokerStove, SNG Wizard, the Nash Equilibrium calculator, and my program ICM Explorer which do many of the calculations for you. Use these to build your intuition about which hands are strong and how risk-averse you should be. That intuition is what you need at the table.
    • Navrark
      Navrark
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.01.2010 Posts: 313
      Originally posted by M1rCea
      Hi and welcome to my thread, appreciate ur time.

      My name's Mircea, I have recently started playing SnG's. Before I invest more time in them, I have some thoughts:

      I. SnG software
      1. Do you use it?
      2. The thing is I don't want to invest in such a program since the very beginning. What would my chances be without it? I saw they enable making reads more easily, see people's stats, etc

      II. Volume
      1. How long until I should start multitabling? I know volume=profit in SnG's, but when I try playing 2 tables for example, I find it hard to take quick decisions in the late phases especially, also I cannot read opponents that well when I have more tables open.

      2. Would moving up in the limits be an alternative instead of multitabling to keep profits going up? Or should I just play one table until i get more experienced?


      That's all I can think of now, guys. Any opinions are much appreciated
      Thanks
      Welcome!

      A HUD is necessary for multitabling at higher stakes. I'm sure if you just play according to the info PS gives you at the lower stakes you will be fine. I'm not sure how far along the Elephant is but that is a free HUD that you may be able to use right away.

      Don't let anyone tell you that you have to multitable. I'd prefer not to have to but until you get to higher stakes the money is pathetic single tabling. Do whatever you like best. One option that will - in a way - help you avoid multitabling is to play Rush Poker. You only need to play one table but you will play about 200 hands per hour. They have tournaments also.

      Multitabling SNGs is quite easy with a HUD. I can't imagine multitabling Cash games though because you miss so much important info from time to time. For example, you raise and get 3 callers, but you don't know this cause you are multitabling. At the flop someone bets and the other two fold. Now the table pops up for you to play and you think you only had one caller, while really 3 people called. So that means the odds are good that your opponent has 2pair or better. I don't know how cash game multitablers deal with problems like that.
    • Washdogg
      Washdogg
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.05.2008 Posts: 82
      So are ICMs and SnG Wizard banned software on Titan? I've always been weary about having them open.
    • brooksjohn
      brooksjohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.08.2010 Posts: 144
      Originally posted by Washdogg
      So are ICMs and SnG Wizard banned software on Titan? I've always been weary about having them open.
      I believe that all poker tools that calculate ICM equity are banned by all sites terms & conditions.

      By the way I have recently started playing 3 tables at once, should I stop adding more now that I am 50?
    • dydukas
      dydukas
      Platinum
      Joined: 01.05.2009 Posts: 1,271
      I believe that all poker tools that calculate ICM equity are banned by all sites terms & conditions.


      Yeah and it's kinda funny cause HEM has built in Wizard. :)