Question about on the flop strategy

    • CanuckPokerPlayer
      Joined: 20.05.2010 Posts: 11
      I just finished studying the Made Hands chart for the post flop betting round and I've got one question.

      Let's say I hold a three of a kind. My hole cards are J4 and the flop is JJ9.

      Would this still be playable? Or is it like Two Pair versus Two Pairs scenario? Can 2 of the 3 cards that make up the three of a kind hand be on the board (shared by everyone)?

  • 4 replies
    • IngridN
      Joined: 02.03.2011 Posts: 12,162
      Hi CanuckPokerPlayer,

      We have a special guest this week who will be happy to answer your question.

    • hasenbraten
      Joined: 20.02.2006 Posts: 3,587
      Those so called trips are kinda tricky. Of course your Hand has some value in it, since you beat every pairhand and there is not even a flush or straight possible. However, if somebody has a Jack, he will usually have you crushed, since your kicker is pretty much as bad as possible.

      So - to answer your question: Sure, your trips are playable in that situation, but you have to be careful. Since you dont play J4 voluntarily, the pot is going to be unraised in such a situation and you are the BB. The strength of your hand is then quite comparable to a good top pair: You may bet some to get called by worse, but its not like you want to go broke with top pair in an unraised pot. So, in your J4 case, if you feel heavy resistance, most likely you are better of giving your trips up due to your kicker.
      If you, e.g., had KJ or so, you should def. consider going broke. KJ beats every Jack but AJ and J9 - and your opponent is just more likely to not have either one (AJ raises often pre, J9 is pretty much the only hand left).
      Long story short: Your hand does have some value but should not really freak you out. The kicker is extremly important in such spots.

      If you have a special situation or so, its always a good idea to post a hand or a further detailed example and let it be discussed with others!

    • farbwenz
      Joined: 01.01.2010 Posts: 359
      Very good question. Think about these scenarios:

      :diamond: opponent has J5 to AJ or 99

      In these cases you would lose a big amount of money.

      :diamond: Flop is 229 and you hold 27:
      Your opponents have lots of outs: Say your opponent has 33 and calls you, Turn shows another 3 and he beats you. Problem is you can't know whether he has hit his full house or whether he's calling for fun. So any pair has good chances to win against you when your trips are low (that's btw a good reason NOT to slowplay!)
      According to the starting hand chart you only see the flop if you are BB and don't get raised. So not a very common situation.

      :diamond: Flop is AA9 and you have A6:
      chance is a bit higher that your opponents have something better (because they like to play aces).
      There are 2 reasons to get involved in such a hand: You either are BB, unraised (or maybe minraised). Or you abandoned the starting hands chart and also play hands like A :spade: 6 :spade: . As you see, can put you into nasty situations, so forget that for the moment :-).
      On the other hand, if you have cards like AJ, AT or AQ you are likely to have the better hand and your opponents are unlikely to give up their A4 or whatever.

      :diamond: flop is 2 :heart: 2 :diamond: 9 :heart: and he holds 8 :heart: 9 :heart: he would have lots of chances to win (i guess he is even ahead?) because of the possible flush.

      So in many hands in which you have only 1 card of the three of a kind, your quite likely to be beat, or are breakeven and often cant know when your opponent improves.

      Are you playing cash games, MTT or SNGs? No limit? For how much money?
      If playing SNG or Tournaments, what blind levels? If cash, SSS or BSS?

      On the low limits your opponents will call you with any bad hand or push all-in without any reason. Thus you cannnot know whether you are ahead or not and play only when you know that you are winning.

      So, my recommendation for SNGs or tournaments, low blind levels:
      Generally you should feel uncomfortable on such a flop, and if in doubt, you have the option to just fold it. Don't fall into the habit of just calling flop, turn and river!
      Against 1 player you could bet for value, for example you could bet 1/2 pot if all cards are of different colour, 2/3 if 2 have the same color(because your opponent's flush draw would become too expensive to call) and check/call or check/fold if 3 have same color. If turncard develops bad, or you meet strong resistance, you can fold (bad cards are those which complete flush or straight draws).
      Against more players it becomes increasingly likely that you are beat and should fold.

      In higher blind levels you might have a good table image( but only if your opponents actually pay attention, which many players don't). And your opponents show more aggression now, and try to steal and bluff, so it becomes more likely that you are on the winning side.

      And if you are playing against a regular player who seems to be able to play poker, you can be more aggressive, but if he calls or raises you, you need to be even more cautious.
      That's just my opinion, I'm quite a beginner myself. So another opinion would be cool^^

      too late, lol^^
    • CanuckPokerPlayer
      Joined: 20.05.2010 Posts: 11
      Ah ok. Thanks for the info guys :)