[NL20-NL50] NL25SH QQ 4bet got flatted

    • osvosv
      Joined: 19.03.2009 Posts: 1,959
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.25(BB) Replayer
      SB ($29.64)
      BB ($24.65)
      UTG ($26.72)
      Hero ($28.20)
      CO ($26.10)
      BTN ($25)

      Dealt to Hero Q:spade: Q:club:

      UTG raises to $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, CO raises to $3, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $6.50, CO calls $3.50

      FLOP ($14.10) J:heart: 8:club: K:diamond:

      Hero checks, CO bets $5, Hero calls $5

      TURN ($24.10) J:heart: 8:club: K:diamond: 6:diamond:

      Hero checks, CO bets $14.60 (AI), Hero ???

      All right, first of all I didn't 3bet preflop because I feel I'll only fold out tons of worse hands (AJs+, AJo+, KQ, 22-TT, and perhaps JJ?) that villain can have and get 4bet owned by his better hands.

      CO decides to squeeze here and I don't know much about him as I only have a small sample on him where he has played 13/13 over 47 hands and 3bet 25% over 16 opportunities. But he has shown he can 3bet/fold vs my 4bet BvB so I'm guessing he can have other hands than QQ+ and AK sometimes.

      So, I decide to 4bet his squeeze because I don't want to play QQ OOP and have to fold flop a lot when an A och K hits.

      I was really surprised when he flatted my 4bet. And the flop is the worst flop ever basically, now AK and JJ beats me as well. But I feel just check/folding the flop is really weak (is it, tho?). So, I decide to call his small bet. And then he shoves a brick turn.

      So, his line seems a lot like AA when he flats my 4bet to "trap" (Hi Phil) I guess, lol? And then decides to bet out the flop really small to induce or just get value from all my pairs and maybe AK? I duno.

      Anyway, comments? Should I just check/fold the flop when he does this? I can't call turn, can I? I only beat a bluff and that doesn't seem to likely given his line.
  • 2 replies
    • Kaitz20
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I usually tend to call down with pairs on 4-bet pot, since pot is really big and he doesn´t really need to bluff that often to make calldown profitable. I think he would shove pf AK, since although being ip he likely can´t continue a lot of boards and you may easily sometimes 4-bet bluff or get all-in with AQ
      he may flat with JJ, KQs, JTs, AQs, ATs thinking he can out play you postflop or feels that he has just too much equity to squeeze/fold pf.
      He would likely play KQ and JJ the same way, but you beat his other hand range that would shove as bluff or semibluff.
    • luizsilveira
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      If you had set your mind to call a bet on the flop no matter what, wouldn't it be the case for YOU to cbet anyway? If you are calling a $5 bet it's usually better to bet the $5 yourself, imo.

      But yeah, I do have issues with cbetting the flop out of position and then checking turn (thus showing weakness). It's something I'd like the opinion of someone more experienced too.

      Lastly, I have my doubts about your 4bet. Since you had decided to flat the previous raiser and then 4bet the squeeze your villain can read you better. The only hands he could be afraid here are JJ and maybe, just maybe AK (since some people like to flat call a raise to trap with AK, or just are too nitty to 3bet it at least on occasion).

      So I think if you bet flop and got raised, or bet flop, checked turn then got bet at you would be more certain you're beat. Lastly, with that second diamond I might even fire a 2nd cbet on turn, showing I do have a hand and don't want to give a free card. That's quite read-dependant of course, and could be a leak :f_o:

      My 2c :f_biggrin: