Bluffable

    • Ectoz
      Ectoz
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.04.2010 Posts: 135
      I've read this in an article and it's starting to get annoying because it just says it and leaves it like that.Quote "This also means players can bluff against you. This isn't a disadvantage - good players have to be bluffable." What does it mean,good players have to be bluffable?

      I know that,you can read a bluff and fold,making him think that you are weak and then make a move and the whole shazzam.It's that it?
  • 23 replies
    • 0xiide
      0xiide
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2011 Posts: 19
      im gunna take a shot in the dark and i reckon it means what if people think your a good enough player to fold top pair in the right situation they might try and bluff yu, and if your a donk and call everything they wont bother, so if your not bluffable you will rarely get paid of your good hands? complete guess but hey
    • phathustler
      phathustler
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      Joined: 03.01.2011 Posts: 23
      To be unbluffable, you would need to call all bluffs.
      To ensure that you call all bluffs, since you're not psychic, you need to call every time they bet in certain situations where they might be bluffing.
      To call in all situations where they might be bluffing, you need to call every time when they might be bluffing but might be actually holding a hand which is beating you.

      This is a problem for a couple reasons. It means, for example, there are stupid extreme situations where they go all in for 40x pot when there's a 0.0005% chance they're bluffing and a 99.9995% chance they're crushing you, and you have to call (else they might occasionally succeed in bluffing you).

      Also if they recognize that you're doing this (or even less extreme versions, like you just have a larger than optimal tendency to call when they may be bluffing in some situations). They can easily adapt to exploit you in these cases by betting larger amounts more often when they're ahead of you with unlikely hands (when their range is more likely to be behind your range, so it appears more like a bluff), and by bluffing less often when they are actually behind, but their range is ahead, etc.

      Obviously, if you could somehow know for certain whether they were bluffing or not, you would always call their bluffs and always fold to their non-bluffs. This would be the best thing ever for you if you could play poker like this. But you don't know for certain, and you have to make your decisions based on hand ranges, so attempting to be completely unbluffable thus means making calls in cases where it would be unprofitable against their range to do so.



      In short, the reason you want to be bluffable is something like that attempting to be unbluffable drives you to play suboptimally in situations where they might be bluffing. If you want another (maybe intuitive) answer, it's because you're assigning some external value to being a correct bluff-caller which is different from the money you're winning in the game, so it skews how you make your decisions. It'd be like you assigned infinite value to correctly calling bluffs when you're trying to calculate your EV.
    • supeyrio
      supeyrio
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      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 3,106
      No.
    • JazBenz
      JazBenz
      Silver
      Joined: 09.02.2010 Posts: 293
      Originally posted by Ectoz
      I've read this in an article and it's starting to get annoying because it just says it and leaves it like that.Quote "This also means players can bluff against you. This isn't a disadvantage - good players have to be bluffable." What does it mean,good players have to be bluffable?

      I know that,you can read a bluff and fold,making him think that you are weak and then make a move and the whole shazzam.It's that it?
      Look, it's easy. You can't bluff an idiot donk because they're too bad to fold.
      For example... bad players will never fold top pair when it is so obvious that the opponent has a set... bad players will never fold a lower flush when it is so obvious that the other person has the nuts...

      the better a poker player, the higher level of thinking comes into play... with experience you will learn all this...

      why do you think tom dwan can make someone fold a full house? Only cuz his opponent is good enough to fold it - meaning tom dwan played the hand exactly the way he would play quads, a successful bluff works if the story being told makes sense... a good play knows this and will fold, unless they have some sort of tell or something in the story doesnt make sense or theyre on tilt and therefore dont buy it

      have u ever played a poker newbie? I dont recommend it because they wont believe anything, so if u dont get lucky enough to hit the board itll suck... they wont lay down bottom pair even after 3 streets of betting... cuz they just dont know better
    • Ectoz
      Ectoz
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      Joined: 07.04.2010 Posts: 135
      thanks for all the feedback
    • fishnumber1
      fishnumber1
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      Joined: 16.04.2011 Posts: 88
      I think there is a lot more to bluffs than meets the eye for novice and intermediate players
      I saw at high stakes videos that some of the players read your hands and try to bluff you with nothing i call that read bluffs
      I mean if they put you on a set on a flush draw flop they will say i know that you have this and you know this that s why i shove you with nothing on a flush board see the likes of durrr and others
    • staktas
      staktas
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2011 Posts: 1,346
      Originally posted by fishnumber1
      I think there is a lot more to bluffs than meets the eye for novice and intermediate players
      I saw at high stakes videos that some of the players read your hands and try to bluff you with nothing i call that read bluffs
      I mean if they put you on a set on a flush draw flop they will say i know that you have this and you know this that s why i shove you with nothing on a flush board see the likes of durrr and others
      Hey MANIAC! :f_biggrin:

      How's your downswing going? :D
    • fishnumber1
      fishnumber1
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      Joined: 16.04.2011 Posts: 88
      I think the High Stakes ALL IN bluffs are for value purpose , they have both offensive and defensive qualities
      ALSO i saw if there are some leaks in your game the opponent will see that and bluff you with a low flush vs a medium flush for example if they saw you check your small flushes on the turn and not your nut flushes.
      So you adapt and make your play a trap for value from bluffers
    • fishnumber1
      fishnumber1
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      Joined: 16.04.2011 Posts: 88
      Very bad I am minus 100 dollars on FULL
      I think for the next play i will certainly stick to bankroll management
    • fishnumber1
      fishnumber1
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      Joined: 16.04.2011 Posts: 88
      It will be boring but at least i will not be in debt so much :f_biggrin:
    • fishnumber1
      fishnumber1
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      Joined: 16.04.2011 Posts: 88
      Saw you once grinding on 3 tables you play pretty tight but at least you get some profit :f_biggrin:
    • staktas
      staktas
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      Joined: 28.03.2011 Posts: 1,346
      Originally posted by fishnumber1
      Saw you once grinding on 3 tables you play pretty tight but at least you get some profit :f_biggrin:
      That's why it's called Tight-Aggressive ;)
    • fishnumber1
      fishnumber1
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      Joined: 16.04.2011 Posts: 88
      SHOULD ALSO STUDY A BIT MORE THE MATHS NOT ONLY PSICHOLOGY CAUSE I PLAY EXTREMELY LOOSE FOR THIS LIMITS
    • fishnumber1
      fishnumber1
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      Joined: 16.04.2011 Posts: 88
      YOU know actually if you are tight aggressive you are predictable
      If you call my continuation bets with nothing on two streets i will definetly fold my nothing on the river :f_biggrin: because you are tight aggressive
    • fishnumber1
      fishnumber1
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      Joined: 16.04.2011 Posts: 88
      AFTER ALL :D
      LETS SEE IF I CAN BLUFF YOU, WHEN I AM GOING TO PLAY WITH YOU FOR THE FIRST TIME :f_love:
    • fishnumber1
      fishnumber1
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      Joined: 16.04.2011 Posts: 88
      AFTER ALL :D
      LETS SEE IF I CAN BLUFF YOU, WHEN I AM GOING TO PLAY WITH YOU FOR THE FIRST TIME :f_love:
    • staktas
      staktas
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      Joined: 28.03.2011 Posts: 1,346
      Oh, right i forgot... That's why best players in the world are tags.. yep, because they are predictable.. i believe that I could be predictable, but that's just because I am big fish myself...
    • fishnumber1
      fishnumber1
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      Joined: 16.04.2011 Posts: 88
      I JUST SAID THAT YOU ARE NOT PREDICTABLE YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO BLUFF ME BECAUSE TIGHT PLAYERS DO NOT BLUFF VERY MUCH :f_eek:
    • fishnumber1
      fishnumber1
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      Joined: 16.04.2011 Posts: 88
      I MEAN YOU CAN BLUFF A BLUFFER WITH VALUE SHOVES ON THE RIVER ON A NON DRAW BOARD WITH A 'SET'
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