[NL2-NL10] NL5 SH AQs OESD+NFD+overcards vs SS donk

    • Meemawuk
      Meemawuk
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2009 Posts: 758
      Crazy action here. Lots of limpers to I 6x it preflop, get 2 callers and flop OESD + FD + 2 overcards. SB donks me and I decide that I have enough equity here since both players are short to get it in. To my surprise I get 2 callers. Is my play okay here of should I be thinking abou it different?

      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      SB:
      $2.71
      Hero:
      $5.09
      MP2:
      $1.68
      BU:
      $5.04

      0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.99 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with A:club: , Q:club:
      MP2 calls $0.05, 2 folds, BU calls $0.05, SB calls $0.03, Hero raises to $0.30, MP2 calls $0.25, BU folds, SB calls $0.25.

      Flop: ($0.95) J:club: , T:club: , 9:heart: (3 players)
      SB bets $0.7, Hero raises to $3.01, MP2 calls $1.38 (All-In), SB calls $1.71 (All-In), Hero gets uncalled bet back.

      Turn: ($7.15) J:spade:
      River: ($7.15) A:diamond: (3 players)


      Final Pot: $7.15

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      MP2 shows (8d 8c)
      SB shows (Ts 9s)
      Hero shows two-pair, aces and jacks (Ac Qc)

      Hero wins with two-pair, aces and jacks (Ac Qc)
  • 7 replies
    • yaxkukmian
      yaxkukmian
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.12.2007 Posts: 2,020
      At first I didn't like your play but when I saw how short they were I like it. Since you want to flip only against donker I think your line is the correct one.

      When we think about ranges many of your outs may be out since one of them might have 2 :club: and also Q is not a good card because one of them usually has K. Donking strong into two players is usually strong but our hand has such potential that our play is ok I think.

      Just a thought...
      If one of them was fullstack I would consider folding on flop since board may become even uglier and if MP2 was fullstack he could overshove and we can't call him.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Meemawuk,

      Preflop: I would even raise it bigger here ~$0,40 for all the limpers and as well being OOP.
      Postflop: Not much to do against those stacks, I am as well going broke. Even against TP there we have a lot of outs and maybe even those other guys will join as well then we will have even better odds.

      Best regards.
    • Meemawuk
      Meemawuk
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2009 Posts: 758
      Another question Veriz. We discussed this as part of the BSS study group.

      2 other members said that I should just flat the flop donk bet to try and draw MP2 into the hand since my hand has so much equity.

      I argued that although I have a lot of equity, I prefer to shove here with my draw to gain some fold equity (since I don't have a made hand), but also to eliminate any tough decisions on the turn. For example, a board pairing turn could mean that I'm actually drawing dead a lot of the time and I don't want to have to call it off drawing dead.

      Do you think it is better for me to flat call the donk bet to try and get MP2's money, or just ship it direct on the flop? (obviously MP2 comes along anyway in this example, but he may fold in other spots)
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Meemawuk
      Another question Veriz. We discussed this as part of the BSS study group.

      2 other members said that I should just flat the flop donk bet to try and draw MP2 into the hand since my hand has so much equity.

      I argued that although I have a lot of equity, I prefer to shove here with my draw to gain some fold equity (since I don't have a made hand), but also to eliminate any tough decisions on the turn. For example, a board pairing turn could mean that I'm actually drawing dead a lot of the time and I don't want to have to call it off drawing dead.

      Do you think it is better for me to flat call the donk bet to try and get MP2's money, or just ship it direct on the flop? (obviously MP2 comes along anyway in this example, but he may fold in other spots)
      According to MP2 play I don't think that he is like ever going to fold any hand there which is as well going to Call while we just Call. Therefore often times with shoving there I am as well trying to gain some fold equity which is very likely we might even get (and of course if even everyone fold then we should be happy about it. :D ). Although just flatting ain't a mistake either.
    • Meemawuk
      Meemawuk
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2009 Posts: 758
      Saying that we are both correct doesn't help me win the argument! :-P Thanks for the advice though. Out of interest, if you personally were playing this hand, do you ship it on the flop or just call?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Meemawuk
      Saying that we are both correct doesn't help me win the argument! :-P Thanks for the advice though. Out of interest, if you personally were playing this hand, do you ship it on the flop or just call?
      I guess my own while being PFA, I'd likely just ship it and even be happy if I get to see all folds. :) Would be ugly for us if we see exactly that card on turn and might even fold the hand while we still could improve or anything like that.
    • kiromanAAKK
      kiromanAAKK
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2009 Posts: 4,022
      For what my opinion worth, I will shove the flop all my life