SAGE Sucks!

    • Navrark
      Navrark
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.01.2010 Posts: 313
      The first thing I hate in Heads Up play at the end of an STT is when the Blinds are low and you have a large "M" value. I would love to just get straight into push fold from there but can't. So I have to play stupid Poker with hyper-aggressive donks until the Blinds get higher. I just can't believe how aggressive most bad players are Heads-Up! You know they are bad due to the 60 VPIP but they sure know to play aggressive.

      But anyway, finally it will be time to play Push/Fold because the Blinds are large enough, and my opponent will Raise or Push. I will have a hand like Q8o which according to SAGE is a call. Now this is stupid because you know your opponent isn't going to push with a hand like Q8o, yet SAGE says I should call with that hand. So if I do call, of course buddy will have A9s and I will lose. It really is pathetic how many times I have gone from being the Big Stack to 2nd place.

      Should I still be playing according to SAGE in these situations?
  • 7 replies
    • bradomurder
      bradomurder
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,329
      how far away from gold status are you? cos the article "push and fold in HU" would help much a lot.

      The SAGE system is a nash system so if they are pushing tighter you have to call tighter and vice versa. so if they wont push with q8o then you cant call (unless the pot odds are too good obviously) However if they are "hyper aggressive" then of course they are.

      If you think they're ranges are way outside the ones in the SAGE then try using sharkscope to analyse your equity vs the pot odds.

      don't forget there is a HUGE ammount of luck in HU with real high blinds
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 5,877
      60 VPIP is not that rare in HU situation, but overall VPIP in 60 is another case :) In HU it might easily be around 80. If I am versus tight player in HU I might raise with any 2 cards from button as long as villain is folding too much and won't adjust. Even more so, if villain is just calling to see if he hit flop and folds to cbet without hit.

      If you think villain is not shoving Q8o in push/fold situation then obviously that hand is not even close of good calling range with decent stack. In general shoving loose is better than calling loose as especially in lower stakes villains tend to be too tight. That apply in higher stakes versus unknowns as well. Versus regs who you know to shove wide you can start to call looser.
    • JCSeerup
      JCSeerup
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.12.2010 Posts: 1,039
      If you normally get HU with 20-25 BB you should try to outplay your opponent instead of waiting for the push or fold play starts, instead of letting him outplay you.

      And in a HU 60 VPIP is not hyper-aggressive play.
    • terpesheva
      terpesheva
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2009 Posts: 156
      As above, in HU VPIP below 75% is very tight imho=)

      I usually start my HU with 100% VPIP, 70% pfr and then might reduce it if the opponent is tough.

      Your best bet would be to learn how to play HU because you are losing a lot of value there. The whole beauty of such loose HU play is that if your opponent is not used to it, he is pretty much doomed.
    • bradomurder
      bradomurder
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,329
      I don't think 60% VPIP is tight, cos it's from both positions.

      I think 75% pfr from the BU is standard but more like 30 from the BB. so that adds to like 50-55ish
    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      I was playin 6max sngs and was thinking exactly like you (bored of waiting to play push/fold) but then I realised I'm winning second place too often, which is horrible for 6max tourneys, so I decided to learn some HU play and it helped not only my headsup but also my play on the bubble when 3handed and not into push/fold mode yet.
    • Navrark
      Navrark
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.01.2010 Posts: 313
      Originally posted by JCSeerup
      If you normally get HU with 20-25 BB you should try to outplay your opponent instead of waiting for the push or fold play starts, instead of letting him outplay you.

      And in a HU 60 VPIP is not hyper-aggressive play.

      No, what I mean is they were 60 VPIP at the start of the tourny. Obviously they tighten up as the blinds go up after they stacked up with their tard play. Then they are so aggressive and they bluff like crazy HU. I keep raising to put the pressure on with mediocre hands and I get reraised and have to fold.

      Like, why are donks so aggressive? I have played maybe two in the last 500 games that were really passive HU, that I could really bully around. Obviously when you watch Poker on TV they always mention how good aggressive play is. But maybe people are just in a worse mood than they used to be in, because of all the corruption in our world of late.

      Yeah, I read about SAGE first in the $16 SNG Blueprint. But I saw the PS article now and it says you can't use SAGE if your opponent isn't either.

      Thanks for the responses!