200$ under EV in 7k hands !

    • drbloody
      drbloody
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      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 83
      It is just waay to sick! I just made a break to post this, graph is from my sessions yesterday and today on PokerStars. Playing NL25 FR BSS atm.
      Somehow I am still managing to play my A game, this is just toooo HILARIOUS to put you on tilt.



      Look at the graph and just try to count/imagine the number of suckouts...

      I'm going back to tables to see when this ends :s_evil: aaawwwrrrrr

      Cheers

      dRb
  • 34 replies
    • sufix645
      sufix645
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      Joined: 20.09.2009 Posts: 519
      its 170$ in 8k hands ;)
      had similar thing at NL25 few weeks ago :/ that pretty sick
    • drbloody
      drbloody
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      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 83
      Yeah its 8K didnt see... and its 200$ look again
    • Slimijs
      Slimijs
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      Joined: 22.01.2011 Posts: 98
      Well I am 110$ under EV in NL25 atm. Not a great feeling :f_confused:
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
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      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Just think of the great feeling to come when it does equalize back :s_biggrin:

      And somehow you still managed to "only" lose $60. That's good :f_biggrin:
    • tcs35
      tcs35
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      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 3,583
      go figure..

    • drbloody
      drbloody
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      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 83
      Originally posted by luizsilveira
      Just think of the great feeling to come when it does equalize back :s_biggrin:

      And somehow you still managed to "only" lose $60. That's good :f_biggrin:
      Originally posted by Slimijs
      Well I am 110$ under EV in NL25 atm. Not a great feeling :f_confused:

      Guys! I am sorry to deny your thoughts/hopes that someday it will equalise!

      Your net winnings will never magically converge with your all in EV cuz if you're a good +EV player you will rarely suckout on other players ! They can only go farther and farther apart, cuz most of the time you play shove you will try to be ahead of the villain!

      It's the reality every good grinder should accept, dunno for higher but at least at micro and low stakes

      I don't expect to run @ EV or above it, I just had to post this cuz it is a thing waaay to sick to survive in two sessions. I've quit this session with acceptable -2bi :s_cool: .
      And yeah, REMEMBER, that actually running far above EV for a large sample size is a sign of very BAD play in which case you should seriously question your skill/mindset ! Just think of it ;)

      Cheers every1

      dRb
    • Jan217
      Jan217
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      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 626
      Originally posted by drbloody
      Originally posted by luizsilveira
      Just think of the great feeling to come when it does equalize back :s_biggrin:

      And somehow you still managed to "only" lose $60. That's good :f_biggrin:
      Originally posted by Slimijs
      Well I am 110$ under EV in NL25 atm. Not a great feeling :f_confused:

      Guys! I am sorry to deny your thoughts/hopes that someday it will equalise!

      Your net winnings will never magically converge with your all in EV cuz if you're a good +EV player you will rarely suckout on other players ! They can only go farther and farther apart, cuz most of the time you play shove you will try to be ahead of the villain!

      It's the reality every good grinder should accept, dunno for higher but at least at micro and low stakes

      I don't expect to run @ EV or above it, I just had to post this cuz it is a thing waaay to sick to survive in two sessions. I've quit this session with acceptable -2bi :s_cool: .
      And yeah, REMEMBER, that actually running far above EV for a large sample size is a sign of very BAD play in which case you should seriously question your skill/mindset ! Just think of it ;)

      Cheers every1

      dRb

      Im sorry but you have this entirely wrong! EV is EV and doesnt care which side of a domination your on. A good player doesnt go above EV over a large sample by sucking out a lot, they go above EV by not getting sucked out on as much as they 'deserve'. If you win a bunch of 70/30 flips in a row, your still gona be a ton above EV despite only 'playing well'. Or if you win 5 AA vs KK all in preflop in a row, thats a whole buyin above EV! But you certainly never made any bad plays going all in preflop with AA...

      Hope that clears things up... :p

      cheers,

      Jan
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Damn, that's tough, the only rational option I see is.. try going to fuck yourself
    • ihufa
      ihufa
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      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      Damn, that's tough, the only rational option I see is.. try going to fuck yourself
      weeeeeeeeeeeee
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by ihufa
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      Damn, that's tough, the only rational option I see is.. try going to fuck yourself
      weeeeeeeeeeeee
      what's up mannnn
    • Classified181
      Classified181
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      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 111
      I know the feeling dr bloody, your not alone here mate. I was grinding Stars Dec and Jan, had a great Dec as a new member, then went +$685 Ev for a result of -$285 in about 10k of hands through Jan. Didnt know whether to laugh or cry, it was just so amusingly sad ?( ?( ?(
    • drbloody
      drbloody
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      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 83
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      Damn, that's tough, the only rational option I see is.. try going to fuck yourself
      LoL what do you mean ? I don't like the way you've put that :tongue:
    • drbloody
      drbloody
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      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 83

      Originally posted by Jan217
      Im sorry but you have this entirely wrong! EV is EV and doesnt care which side of a domination your on. A good player doesnt go above EV over a large sample by sucking out a lot, they go above EV by not getting sucked out on as much as they 'deserve'. If you win a bunch of 70/30 flips in a row, your still gona be a ton above EV despite only 'playing well'. Or if you win 5 AA vs KK all in preflop in a row, thats a whole buyin above EV! But you certainly never made any bad plays going all in preflop with AA...

      Hope that clears things up... :p

      cheers,

      Jan
      Nothing was unclear to me :s_confused: !? What are you trying to clear up ?

      Good players are doomed running below EV and should accept that... just think of it twice!!

      What are you talking about !?!?!? "EV doesn't care" !? like if "EV" was an entity ? can EV think, maybe EV even has a central nervous system :s_evil:
      I am sorry m8 but I fail to see what are you trying to clear up or talking about!?
      If you win a 70/30 flip in your favor u're not gonna run above ev u'll be exactly at it, no matter how many times you do! You can't go above EV with AA vs KK, only below. Why so many ppl around just pollute these forums trying to be smartasses without having basic idea what they're talking about !!

      I'm sorry but you have this entirely wrong! Jan! :f_cry:
    • TiciBoy
      TiciBoy
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      Joined: 13.01.2010 Posts: 1,235
      Originally posted by drbloody

      Originally posted by Jan217
      Im sorry but you have this entirely wrong! EV is EV and doesnt care which side of a domination your on. A good player doesnt go above EV over a large sample by sucking out a lot, they go above EV by not getting sucked out on as much as they 'deserve'. If you win a bunch of 70/30 flips in a row, your still gona be a ton above EV despite only 'playing well'. Or if you win 5 AA vs KK all in preflop in a row, thats a whole buyin above EV! But you certainly never made any bad plays going all in preflop with AA...

      Hope that clears things up... :p

      cheers,

      Jan
      Nothing was unclear to me :s_confused: !? What are you trying to clear up ?

      Good players are doomed running below EV and should accept that... just think of it twice!!

      What are you talking about !?!?!? "EV doesn't care" !? like if "EV" was an entity ? can EV think, maybe EV even has a central nervous system :s_evil:
      I am sorry m8 but I fail to see what are you trying to clear up or talking about!?
      If you win a 70/30 flip in your favor u're not gonna run above ev u'll be exactly at it, no matter how many times you do! You can't go above EV with AA vs KK, only below. Why so many ppl around just pollute these forums trying to be smartasses without having basic idea what they're talking about !!

      I'm sorry but you have this entirely wrong! Jan! :f_cry:
      It depends exactly how EV is calculated (I don't know, so I can't say who is right here)... But I understand what is Jan trying to tell you. Your EV in a 70/30 flip is not a whole stack, but 70% of the stack in the long run... If you win (just an example number) 100 such 70/30 flips in a row, you will be actually 30% over your EV. Because you were not expected to winn all 100 flips, but only 70. At least that's what I understand he was tryying to tell you.
    • Jan217
      Jan217
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      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 626
      exactly! :)
    • drbloody
      drbloody
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      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 83
      Originally posted by TiciBoy

      It depends exactly how EV is calculated (I don't know, so I can't say who is right here)... But I understand what is Jan trying to tell you. Your EV in a 70/30 flip is not a whole stack, but 70% of the stack in the long run... If you win (just an example number) 100 such 70/30 flips in a row, you will be actually 30% over your EV. Because you were not expected to winn all 100 flips, but only 70. At least that's what I understand he was tryying to tell you.
      The problem is that all in EV is not calculated that way, neither by PT3 nor by HEM. IE: if you are the underdog when going all in and win you will go above ev, the same goes for the contrary - if you were a favorite and loose you go below the corresponding amount.

      All that meaning that EV calculation by the software we use is seriously flawed...
    • phantommm92
      phantommm92
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      Joined: 14.05.2010 Posts: 1,464
      both go all in for 10 bucks AA vs KK, pot is 20 bucks, so the player who has AA his winnings line will either go +10 or -10, but the EV line will always go +8,2$ because AA vs KK is 82% vs 18%
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
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      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by drbloody
      Originally posted by TiciBoy

      It depends exactly how EV is calculated (I don't know, so I can't say who is right here)... But I understand what is Jan trying to tell you. Your EV in a 70/30 flip is not a whole stack, but 70% of the stack in the long run... If you win (just an example number) 100 such 70/30 flips in a row, you will be actually 30% over your EV. Because you were not expected to winn all 100 flips, but only 70. At least that's what I understand he was tryying to tell you.
      The problem is that all in EV is not calculated that way, neither by PT3 nor by HEM. IE: if you are the underdog when going all in and win you will go above ev, the same goes for the contrary - if you were a favorite and loose you go below the corresponding amount.

      All that meaning that EV calculation by the software we use is seriously flawed...
      I don't know about how the code was written but one thing is for sure on my PT3: if I go all in with JJ vs. AK, my EV line stays pretty much EVEN no matter what the result. So yes, if I lose the flip of, say, $2, I'll be $1 below EV. If I win the flip, I'll be $1 up. I'm speaking roughly, of course.

      So I'll suppose the exact same happens in the AA vs. KK example, just changing the EV (sorry to be obvious).

      So I think the EV line should equalize yes indeed, in the so-spoken-of-long-run. Because even if you go ahead (say the AA vs. KK) and you win, you will still be ABOVE EV. Your EV in that case, same $2 heads-up pot, is roughly $0.80 (80%), so if you win the $2 you'll be $0.20 above your EV line. If you lose it, though, you'll be $1.80 below (the EV line went up 80c, your winnings went down $1).

      That's why you "feel" more when you take a beat and the EV is hugely off (in this case, $1.80, even if you only put $1 in the pot). But it should equalize, because if you keep putting it as a favorite and winning, you will be catching up the EV line slowly.

      But all that goes for all-ins only as it is on PT3. I don't know about HEM but I'd guess it's the same. So... if you go all-in once AA vs. KK and lose, then win 10 pots in a row with AA vs. KK on a NON-all-in pot, your winnings will still be way below EV line.

      So... get those chips in the middle when you are a favorite and it will equalize :f_biggrin:

      edited to complete the post and correct some sums.
    • gdi991
      gdi991
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      Joined: 22.09.2009 Posts: 21
      level or just that stupid?
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