[NL2-NL10] AK - preflop

    • drachdudek
      drachdudek
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.11.2007 Posts: 656
      Hi

      After 45K hands i found that maybe SSS preflop chart should be modified in terms of how to play AK preflop? Probably i am wrong, that is why i posted this thread to get some of your opinions.

      I have calculated that more then 70% of my AK was sucked preflop when first in raised 4BB then i was reraised and after SSS chart i went all-in and i was sucked. Also suckouts happened most of the time if 2 players called my raise and after SSS chart i re-raised and went all-in...

      The problem is that playing SSS you dont have enough reads of opponents as you are changing tables a lot. If playing SSS should you always strictly follow the SSS preflop chart or should you also sometimes fold some card which you should play according SSS chart if you have some bad feeling that you will be sucked or that you are behind (again you dont have good reads of your opponents)?

      Drach
  • 8 replies
    • xylere
      xylere
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      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      1) Leave any feelings (good or bad) somewhere aside)
      2) regarding your AK hands - probably just variance, playing AK passively then SHC suggests is a weak-tight approach. I don`t recall myself folding AK pre-flop and this hand is one of my best earners) Just make sure you are playing it correctly.
    • drachdudek
      drachdudek
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      Joined: 06.11.2007 Posts: 656
      Hi Xylere

      Sorry, but i didnt understand your point 2. ;) Can you please clarify it to me more detailed. Thanks a lot..

      Drach
    • drachdudek
      drachdudek
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      Joined: 06.11.2007 Posts: 656
      Xylere..i take some my doubts back...;) ..today i just earned in only 2 hands more then 70BB with AK :D
    • xylere
      xylere
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      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Originally posted by drachdudek
      Xylere..i take some my doubts back...;) ..today i just earned in only 2 hands more then 70BB with AK :D
      nice) but what exactly you didn`t understand? AK is only underdog against AA and KK, against 22-QQ it is a slight underdog, however, limpers, coldcallers and blind money will often compensate... Against all the other hands AK is favourite. It is strong favourite (3:1) against Ax hands that are very playable on any limit... Besides, It is also very profitable and easy to play postflop, since most of the time we will get enough odds to play it till the end, while we will have to lay down hands like TT-JJ more often...

      AK is not a huge favourite against most of the deck (except Ax hands) and there are a lot of snap off hands like small suited connectors (that have 42% equity against AK). This means that we are likely to suffer from short term variance, but in the long run AK is very profitable hand and we should play it agressively - as SHC suggests.
    • drachdudek
      drachdudek
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.11.2007 Posts: 656
      Xylere, thanks for your explanation...eveything is very clear and understandable now... I just didnt understand when you said "Just play it correctly"..Probably you meant play it correctly post-flop, preflop if SSS player you have to play it just according the SS preflop Chart, but in postflop if you know that you are bitten you have to fold it sometimes...
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      well, the tricky thing is you almost never fold AK hands (after you raised first) ) I mean, you need very obvious reasons for that. Playing with a short stack you fold more in wa/wb situations, for instance, with TT on a A 9 4 flop. There a 2/3 pot bet will normally make non-Ace hands fold and if we got reraised, we will be willing to safe our entire stack, since we have only 2 outs to improve in case we are behind (opponnet has an Ace).

      With AK it is a different story. Basically, almost on any flop and against any range of hands we will have enough equity to call, meaning that we are pot commited. Lets play example hand:

      We have AK.
      Stack: 20BB

      We raise 4BB from MP, BU calls.

      Flop: Qh 7s 2c
      Pot: 9,5BB
      Stack: 16BB

      According to the strategy we have to make a cbet of 7BB and fold to reraise. That kind of play will be likely correct in "TT on the ace flop" example, but it is not really the best play here.

      We bet 7BB, our opponent reraises all-in.

      Pot: 9,5BB + 7BB + 16BB = 32,5BB we have 9BB left -> pot odds: 32,5:9 = 3.6:1 -> we need to win in 21% of the time

      If we assume that he makes a reraise only when he hit something strong, lets say with a range 77-TT, 22, AQs, KQs, AQo, KQo - we have 17% of equity (missing only 4%)
      BUT! If we add at least one marginal hand, like AJ, our equity raises to 32% ! Therefore, unless we are up against VERY passive player, we are mathematically forced to make a call. (against unknown call will be also profitable in the long run, especially on the lower limits, since in reality players will have way looser range)

      Now after we have figured out that in most cases we will have to play our hand till the end, we need to figure out what line has more EV: cbet/call or push first in?

      Assumptions:

      - flop, cards, pot and bets are the same
      - we are up against moderatly agressive opponent:

      Option 1: we cbet/call
      Opp's pushing Range: 77-TT, 22, AQs-AJs, KQs, AQo-AJo, KQo
      Our equity: 30%
      Our fold equity: 40%
      1) EV = 0.4*9.5 + 0.6*(0.3*25,5 - 0.7*16) = 3.8 + 0,6* (7,65 - 11,2) = 3.8 - 2.1 = +1,7 BB

      Option 2: push
      Opp's calling Range: 77, 22, AQs, KQs, AQo, KQo
      Our equity: 10%
      Our Fold equity: 70%
      2) EV = 0.7*9.5 + 0.3*(0.1*25,5 - 0.9*16)= 6.65 - 3,55 = + 3,1 BB

      This is just a simple example to illustrate why we are interested in maximizing the fold equity... Of course our FE will differ from situation and will depend on the opponent, but the general idea is the same:

      Since we are commited after a cbet and have to call, it is reasonable to push directly to maximize our fold equity, which results in higher EV.
    • drachdudek
      drachdudek
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      Joined: 06.11.2007 Posts: 656
      Vauuu..thanks a lot, very good explanation... :P Statistically you are absolutelly correct...
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
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      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      I think its also generally true, if you would be comitted anyway, better to push ahead.
      When you are not wa for sure of course.