Blinds are killing me? (NL10 Rush)

    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      Hey guys,

      After reading this thread I checked my own winnings by position, and somehow felt the urge to discuss that :f_biggrin: I think separate thread is better here, since I don't want to "occupy" other guys thread with my problems. So, here we go:

      SB:


      BB:


      EP:


      MP:


      CO:


      BU:


      And here are my stats:


      It's more than obvious that I incredibly suck while playing blinds. Interesting thing is that I changed my play style like gazzillion times during this sample, but it looks like SB+BB graph didn't become any better.
      It would be really good to see other players graphs from blinds. I'd really like to have at least an approximate picture of how my graph should look like.
      And some corrections/advices would be more than welcome.
  • 13 replies
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Pretty much everyone will lose money at blinds, both at sd and nsd that's natural, if u r losing too much or not I can't say, what I can say is WTF at having pretty much same VPIP/PFR out of all positions except blinds? And then playing looser on SB than BB too, no positional awareness whatsoever. (same w 3bet)

      Idk about your blind play, seen worse, seen better but your red line/results just sucks from all other positions.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Pretty much what frostass said. You play same hand ranges on all positions and are losing a little to much on the blinds.

      You should try to play tighter on the blinds. You cold call a lot and then you have to play with out initiative and OOP which is really hard and is losing you money. What handranges are you cold calling on the SB/BB ?

      Also your way to tight on the CO/BU and could steal more pots, especially vs nitty players on the blinds.
    • charliebeth
      charliebeth
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.03.2011 Posts: 39
      Looks to me like you are limping in / completing and then and Cbetting the Blinds way too much.

      Just look at your Flop Cbet % in the blinds , that's massive . No-one hit the flop that often.

      The blinds take enough toll on your cash as it is without you adding by limping in.

      I suggest you tighten up in the blinds ..... throw everything out except JJ+ , AKs, AKo .

      Dont worry about defending them blinds.

      I only play 2NL so more experienced People please correct my mis-information.
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,944
      PFR early > MP > CO > button seems suboptimal to me to say the least. Mine goes something like 13%, 15%, 20%, 40%.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by charliebeth
      I suggest you tighten up in the blinds ..... throw everything out except JJ+ , AKs, AKo .

      Dont worry about defending them blinds.

      I only play 2NL so more experienced People please correct my mis-information.
      That's just too tight and too easy to play against etc etc, lets not forget that everyone would be losing @ 100bb/100 from bb if they'd be folding every hand and 50bb/100 from SB, so OP isn't doing all that bad by losing 36bb/100 from BB comparing to what he's "due" to lose.
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      Nice to see some discussions :)

      So from everything I read so far, did I make correct conclusions?

      Here they are:
      - Tighten up from early positions, loosen up from CO-BU;
      - Call less from blinds, fold or 3bet more;
      - Cbet more ip, less oop;

      @MatejM47: from blinds I'm usually cold calling low-medium pocket pairs and hands that are too weak to 3bet for value, but too strong to bluff - that's mostly AQ-AJ, JJ-TT. Any advices on how to play these more effectively would be awesome.

      Also, it would be nice to see more of your stats, guys, just like jbpatzer posted.
    • joeldowey123
      joeldowey123
      Silver
      Joined: 09.06.2010 Posts: 961
      [quote]

      @MatejM47: from blinds I'm usually cold calling low-medium pocket pairs and hands that are too weak to 3bet for value, but too strong to bluff - that's mostly AQ-AJ, JJ-TT. Any advices on how to play these more effectively would be awesome. [quote]

      6 handed, AQ-AJ, JJ-TT are definate 3 bet spots in the blinds.

      JJ and TT - if you dont 3 bet and a high card hits the flop you wont have a clue where u are. U might also pick the pot up there and then which isnt a bad result.
    • Adapter1337
      Adapter1337
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2010 Posts: 734
      wow your red line is really bad at all positions, its you biggest leak for sure.

      I havent played NL10, but i have pretty big NL25 sample, and these limits i think are similar, its seems to be SH, it should be even better, for example, my FR NL25 button:


      And other positions (exept SB/BB) should be similar, just sd going more up and ns bit less, but def ns must go up, bu you have be, what should be overall (with sb/bb)
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by Bliausmas
      Nice to see some discussions :)

      So from everything I read so far, did I make correct conclusions?

      Here they are:
      - Tighten up from early positions, loosen up from CO-BU;
      - Call less from blinds, fold or 3bet more;
      - Cbet more ip, less oop;

      @MatejM47: from blinds I'm usually cold calling low-medium pocket pairs and hands that are too weak to 3bet for value, but too strong to bluff - that's mostly AQ-AJ, JJ-TT. Any advices on how to play these more effectively would be awesome.

      Also, it would be nice to see more of your stats, guys, just like jbpatzer posted.
      My stats are something like 15% EP and MP, CO 25 and BU 35. From blinds i play about the same as in EP.

      Thats not your CC range one the BB tho. AJ+ and all PP are only 8% range and your CC 12%. And for me AJ against EP is 3-bet or fold usually, especially if his playing tight he really doesn't have many worse A's in his range.

      Personally against EP and MP i only CC AQo+ AJs and KQs and all PP. I add SC only if the pot gets multiway.

      Against CO/BU i usually call suited brodways + KQo, but generally drop 22-55 since your implied odds against BU range are pretty low and you just end up C/F to many flops or calling once and folding to future action.

      General gameplan against CO/BU is to C/R when ever i flop 2overs + a gutshot, or 2overs + backdoor flushdraw and only fire the turn when i improve to TP or pick up my backdoor draw so i don't end up folding everytime i don't hit a pair.

      You could also get your 3-bet %% up to around 5.5-6%. Just try to find people who fold to 3-bets a ton or call 3-bets and then fold to C-bets a lot.
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      @MatejM47: that's a bunch of good advices, thanks. Especially about c/r when flopped 2overs + bd draw - never thought about it before, seems like a really good move. Gonna try that definitely. Those AQ-AJ hands are really tough to play, especially oop. Pretty often you hit a top pair only to lose a bigger pot...
      And about the range - yeah, I forgot to add KQ, and to mention that I tend to call a lot more when I tilt.
      I like to 3bet CO-BU raisers with SC sometimes. And with hands like AQ/AJ/KQs - do you like 3betting or calling late position raisers?

      @Adapter1337: yup, according to your graph I totally suck :D Thanks for sharing, it really helps to make a better picture.

      @joeldowey123: isn't that too aggro? Because many players like to call 3bets ip, and you get more difficult situations when pot is already bigger. Personally I think that 3betting like that should depend very much from your opponents.
    • fusionpk
      fusionpk
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,683
      3b'ing from blinds depends on ur opponents tendencies and u can abs fucking rape most nl10 regs if u just take notice/notes.

      Some ppl open BTN rly wide and just fold to all ur 3b's without a good hand, in this case u can just 3b polarised, lots of Axs and shit like that aswell as premiums.

      Some ppl open BTN rly wide but like to continue alot of shit bc they are in position, usually its suited shit, some broadways and some pps. (Usually without the correct implieds, they just don't like getting 'ran over') So vs these ppl, you just rape them, you can start to 3b many more hands for value from the blinds, hands that dominate the hands they are calling with, if your playing OOP the main thing you need is card advantage and initiative, so by 3b'ing a good solid strong but still not too tighter range, you take initiative and get them to call with hands that play bad vs ur range. If they are calling hands like QJ u r going to be raping them on J high boards with ur AJ when they flop TP in 3b pot. With initiative u can also cbet many many boards.

      Your main leak is lack of positional awareness.
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 741
      Originally posted by fusionpk
      3b'ing from blinds depends on ur opponents tendencies and u can abs fucking rape most nl10 regs if u just take notice/notes.

      Some ppl open BTN rly wide and just fold to all ur 3b's without a good hand, in this case u can just 3b polarised, lots of Axs and shit like that aswell as premiums.

      Some ppl open BTN rly wide but like to continue alot of shit bc they are in position, usually its suited shit, some broadways and some pps. (Usually without the correct implieds, they just don't like getting 'ran over') So vs these ppl, you just rape them, you can start to 3b many more hands for value from the blinds, hands that dominate the hands they are calling with, if your playing OOP the main thing you need is card advantage and initiative, so by 3b'ing a good solid strong but still not too tighter range, you take initiative and get them to call with hands that play bad vs ur range. If they are calling hands like QJ u r going to be raping them on J high boards with ur AJ when they flop TP in 3b pot. With initiative u can also cbet many many boards.

      Your main leak is lack of positional awareness.
      Yup, that's exactly what I'm gonna do from now on - 3bet vs CO/BU for value with wider range, no 3bet bluffs out of position, and apply polarised 3bet range when 3betting in position. Also I'm not going to call oop anymore, unless I have a plan (i.e. like Matej mentioned - c/r with 2overs + some draw). And of course tighten up in EP/MP, and LAG up in CO/BU.

      Thank you all, guys, that was big help, and now I have a picture of what should I change in my game (well, I believe I have :f_biggrin: ). I'll try to describe all my new experience in my blog, as I now took a longer break from playing and I'm planning to come back with brand new attitude and some vital changes to my play which I hope will be the last needed changes to beat micros.
    • fusionpk
      fusionpk
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,683
      Just don't go completely monkey :P remember selective aggression.