"I lost everything" .... "Im out" ..... "That's what they all say"

  • 25 replies
    • NIVEKii
      NIVEKii
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      dude, there literally is a youtube button when you post a reply or start a thread :/

    • Kodark
      Kodark
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      Only annoying thing about how the media portrays poker is it makes it seem like every hand is quads vs boat or royal fush vs quad aces. In reality 99% of hands are not like this. 1 player has TPTK and one has a strait or flushdraw thats enough to stack off most of the time, no need for the nuts every time to see action.
    • AleksandarPPA
      AleksandarPPA
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      Joined: 26.07.2010 Posts: 136
      SO TRUE ! :)
    • supeyrio
      supeyrio
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      how boring would it be to see top pair vs flush. i see that in my poker client everyday
    • arisko
      arisko
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      Originally posted by supeyrio
      how boring would it be to see top pair vs flush. i see that in my poker client everyday
      true, Imagine if the music starts to build up, the atmosphere is tense, they zoom in on the sweat on his forehead, he turns to look at the cards... sees 72o and folds...

      wouldn't be much of a poker movie would it?
    • jasonforan
      jasonforan
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      Joined: 04.06.2010 Posts: 357
      Originally posted by supeyrio
      how boring would it be to see top pair vs flush. i see that in my poker client everyday
      lol have to agree with you there
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
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      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      Now i want to watch rounders again :f_biggrin: Was complete fish last time i watched it.. so might be more interesting now.
    • Kodark
      Kodark
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      Originally posted by supeyrio
      how boring would it be to see top pair vs flush. i see that in my poker client everyday
      Well you do yes. But people who dont play poker watch these movies and think thats how every hand goes down.

      Also its not a "skill" contest when you have matt damons hand and walk into the aces full like that. That's just something that happens, even a guy on his first ever hand of poker could play against phill ivy and still stack him with that hand matchup.

      The real skill of poker comes from the more marginal desisions where you have to understand alot more about the game and the opponent to make the right decision.
    • supeyrio
      supeyrio
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      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 3,106
      Originally posted by Kodark
      Originally posted by supeyrio
      how boring would it be to see top pair vs flush. i see that in my poker client everyday
      Well you do yes. But people who dont play poker watch these movies and think thats how every hand goes down.

      Also its not a "skill" contest when you have matt damons hand and walk into the aces full like that. That's just something that happens, even a guy on his first ever hand of poker could play against phill ivy and still stack him with that hand matchup.

      The real skill of poker comes from the more marginal desisions where you have to understand alot more about the game and the opponent to make the right decision.
      like how people watch spiderman and go home and let their animals bite them to become dogman or catwomen etc

      the objective of the movie is entertainment, not education. otherwise it would be known as a documentary. sure that wasn't skill, but that was hell darn nicer to watch vs if matt damon were to take out equilator to calculate the right moves and ranges :f_p:
    • Kodark
      Kodark
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      [ ] spiderman is relevant
      [ ] The truth is always less entertaining
    • Bliausmas
      Bliausmas
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      I love movies where the truth is revealed as it is, although there aren't much of these. But there is a bright side also. How many people began to play poker because of "Rounders"... Or how many people began practising martial arts because of Bruce Lee or Van Damme movies? Far from reality, but we still love it :f_biggrin:
    • supeyrio
      supeyrio
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      Originally posted by Kodark
      [ ] spiderman is relevant
      [ ] The truth is always less entertaining
      [ ] fail @ understanding
      [*] make less assumptions
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
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      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by Kodark

      Well you do yes. But people who dont play poker watch these movies and think thats how every hand goes down.

      hmmm... if they think that in that case then I don't know they've paid enough attention. In that scene, they have clearly been playing for a long time (many people had left, only 4 players left on table, Matt's stack was way bigger than initial stack)...

      So it was not "every hand" in the movie, but a turning point in the main character's life.

      And even if those hands do not happen "every time" in real life, they do quite often. I play weekly live tournaments and I've seen my share. Only a couple of weeks ago, on a simple home game, I had quad aces over villains full house, and two other players had full house over higher full house, exactly like the movie but with QQ.

      Originally posted by Kodark

      Also its not a "skill" contest when you have matt damons hand and walk into the aces full like that. That's just something that happens, even a guy on his first ever hand of poker could play against phill ivy and still stack him with that hand matchup.

      The real skill of poker comes from the more marginal desisions where you have to understand alot more about the game and the opponent to make the right decision.
      And KJB's smooth call with pocket aces on a 4 handed game is "standard"? And his false tell, saying to Matt "It's a position raise, I call" (because Matt's character had raised from the button).

      I have the extended DVD version, with commentaries of pro's on top of the movie (Phil Helmuth, Chan, Fergusson, etc.) and they keep some time discussing that hand. If they do, I don't think it's "an easy stack off" as you put it. Phil (of course the most conservative) even recommended a fold, considering it was the character's whole bankroll and he would still leave the session a lot up anyway. But the rest agreed just a call on the river would be better, since he had the second nuts. But he's all-in raise, all agree, was a mistake.

      I'm not saying the movie is not flawed. It is, and a lot. But I don't think the hands played are the problem. And it's definitively not a Maverick ;)
    • joeldowey123
      joeldowey123
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      Joined: 09.06.2010 Posts: 961
      i just watched this for the 1st time - i like it!
    • Kodark
      Kodark
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      Originally posted by supeyrio
      Originally posted by Kodark
      [ ] spiderman is relevant
      [ ] The truth is always less entertaining
      [ ] fail @ understanding
      [*] make less assumptions
      you must be new to this game
      it would be
      [x] failure to understand

      a fantasy movie based on a radioactive spider bite has nothing to do with poker or representing the truth lol? dont know if you been drinking paint thinner or something.

      Also on topic Rounders is merely an example this also happens in Casino Royal where 4 players in the hand have boats and strait flushes . Very Unlikely.

      And reason rounders disappoints in this hand is because the movie tries to represent the types of poker players and through soliloquy tries to educate the audience about the grinding nature of poker my point is a set vs flush would be fine, these movies always represent hands that are less than 1% chance of occurring.

      Also it is easy how KJB plays the hand you top set and your opponent doubles the pot. Obviously calling him and not raising he either has a hand or is bluffing if i raise him and he is bluffing he will fold so obv call. Turn comes 9 and your holding second nuts. Chance of opponent having pocket 9's is low so you have him by the balls obv gonna let him donk his money in, river comes down and you want to value bet fat opponent raises all in with either Ksflush or 9's full maybe quad 9's but obv calling. Standard.

      Besides just an observation. A true poker player doesn't need to see quad aces vs royal flush in a hand to be entertained by a poker movie. Its how they play the hand that offers the entertainment.
    • supeyrio
      supeyrio
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      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 3,106
      Originally posted by Kodark
      Originally posted by supeyrio
      Originally posted by Kodark
      [ ] spiderman is relevant
      [ ] The truth is always less entertaining
      [ ] fail @ understanding
      [*] make less assumptions
      you must be new to this game
      it would be
      [x] failure to understand

      a fantasy movie based on a radioactive spider bite has nothing to do with poker or representing the truth lol? dont know if you been drinking paint thinner or something.

      Also on topic Rounders is merely an example this also happens in Casino Royal where 4 players in the hand have boats and strait flushes . Very Unlikely.

      And reason rounders disappoints in this hand is because the movie tries to represent the types of poker players and through soliloquy tries to educate the audience about the grinding nature of poker my point is a set vs flush would be fine, these movies always represent hands that are less than 1% chance of occurring.

      Also it is easy how KJB plays the hand you top set and your opponent doubles the pot. Obviously calling him and not raising he either has a hand or is bluffing if i raise him and he is bluffing he will fold so obv call. Turn comes 9 and your holding second nuts. Chance of opponent having pocket 9's is low so you have him by the balls obv gonna let him donk his money in, river comes down and you want to value bet fat opponent raises all in with either Ksflush or 9's full maybe quad 9's but obv calling. Standard.

      Besides just an observation. A true poker player doesn't need to see quad aces vs royal flush in a hand to be entertained by a poker movie. Its how they play the hand that offers the entertainment.
      lol, still trying very hard i see.
      obv still dont get it
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
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      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      just a note.. I wouldn't want to see a realistic movie. Would you rather see the 100 hands that led up to that hand? Why would you want to see that? If you want to see pro's play then watch the WSOP or pokerstars the big game or some other poker show..

      I only want to see the most epic bluffs, folds and calls in a poker movie tbh. I don't want to see someone valuebetting straight vs top set. There's really no point in showing boring or standard hands.. maybe a few.. but if they show too many then it just gets very boring for most of the audience.. especially those that don't play poker. Even poker shows don't show those hands.. you usualy only see the biggest/most exciting hands.
    • Kodark
      Kodark
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      Joined: 24.02.2011 Posts: 249
      Originally posted by supeyrio
      lol, still trying very hard i see.
      obv still dont get it
      Lol what are you talking about. You made a terrible analogy not my problem is it.
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
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      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by supeyrio[...]river comes down and you want to value bet fat opponent raises all in with either Ksflush or 9's full maybe quad 9's but obv calling. Standard.
      Opponent didn't raise all in. KJB just bet the river, Matt didn't think about villain slowplaying, only thought about the flush and came all in over the top with second nuts for his whole bankroll.

      And "movies always represent hands that are less than 1% chance of occurring."

      Yes. As told, imagine the "climax": Matt Damon tried a blind steal and the BB folds.

      Hands like the one in the movie do not happen often, and that's exactly the reason they are interesting and make it into a movie scene. But they do happen a lot (less than 1% of all poker hands is still A LOT), just a quick youtube search and one can find tons of "less likely" hands.

      As for Casino Royale, yes, that's trash and ridiculous. But on Rounders they had professional player's assistance to take care on trying to recreate "feasible" hands as good players would play them.

      Again, I don't think it's a brilliant movie or anything, but in that it definitively is not in the same box of Casino Royale, Maverick and many others.
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