[NL20-NL50] NL50 [SH], BBvsBU, ck/r 656tt

    • Anger86
      Anger86
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.08.2008 Posts: 511
      $0.25/$0.5 No-Limit Hold'em (4 handed)

      Known players:
      CO:
      $52.30
      BU:
      $70.60
      SB (Hero):
      $62.30
      BB:
      $53.20


      Preflop: Hero is SB with X, X.
      CO raises to $1.50, BU folds, Hero calls $1.25, BB folds.

      Flop: ($3.5) 6, 5, 6 (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $2.25, Hero raises to $8.00, CO raises to $19.00, Hero raises to $60.80

      Villain's stats:
      - Metagame was straightforward before this hand.


      Hello,

      As you can see Villain is pretty aggressive type of opponent.
      I didn't shove you my hand to ask a few questions,
      from which we will have a better idea to understand
      our preffered range of hands in this situation.

      Q1: How many value hands do we need here?
      Q2: How many semi-bluff hands do we need here?
      Q3: How many pure air hands do we need here?

      Thanks!
  • 5 replies
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Q1: How many value hands do we need here?
      - consider what hands do you consider for value. I´d personally think TT+ would likely hands for value, since if you c/r for that spot with 5x or lower pp-s and get 3-bet then very often you´re way behind and can´t really play for stacks. Most hands I´m going to c/r for value, since board is small and paired I think he would very often might 3-bet bluff me or float. Like 70% should be fine.
      Q2: How many semi-bluff hands do we need here?
      With strong draws you don´t really mind c/r and getting all-in, like 7h6h or A high flushdraw, since you get him to fold his better air or sometimes he would get all-in with worse flushdraws. I would go like 25% of times.
      Q3: How many pure air hands do we need here?
      Not really that often. If you think his range is mostly air you can always just c/c flop and bet out any turn or bet out flop directly. c/r would build up big pot and likely you have to give up anyway on the turn. If player is c-betting any flop then sometimes I might c/r hands that has some backdoor draws, like QhJs. but generally I´d go to 5%
    • Anger86
      Anger86
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.08.2008 Posts: 511
      My actual hand in this example was K :spade: Q :heart: .
      My reasoning for doing, what I did was that - I didn't expect Villain to
      play value hands this way, because most of the time he should just call my
      raise on the flop.
      I should probably remember, that peaple do all kind of stuff on NL50 (Also me. :D ).
      Doing both - bluffing too much in these spots and also people who are playing
      only for value in these spots.

      Some player told me, that If I expect Villain to be bluffing a lot in this spot,
      then I should be rather calling down and let him bluff. OK, I like it.
      Problem is that he could be bluffing with Ax hands also.

      So my best option then would be to call down
      with hands like AJ or AQ, sometikes AK (AK - 3bet preflop sometimes).

      Value range:
      - When we talk about these hands = TT+, then it all comes back to pre-flop play.
      It is, when I call these hands, with a plan (which I plan pre-flop) to ck/c or ck/r flops,
      depending on a flop structure.
      - I also have to think about my 3bet range in this situation, as I sometimes
      want to 3bet-bluff in this spot.
      If I would always 3bet my air and always call premiums,
      then I would be a good target for a 4bet bluff.
      So, my strategy against this player could be to calls most of the premiums,
      3bet less (or bluff 3bet him until he starts to suspect, that I have no value hands in my 3bet range).
      Play some ck/r poker post-flop.

      Semi-bluffing range:
      I agree, but I would probably get rid of overcards in my bluff range and more
      flush draws like Q:heart: J:heart: , J:heart: T:heart: , T:heart: 9:heart: , etc.
      Q: What do you think about this plan?

      Plan B:
      - When we look at his stats in the first post, we can see that most of his
      aggression comes form Flop play,
      but on the T and the R he becomes more straight forward.
      So, he is Honest = Flop, Dishonest = Turn, River.

      Q: Maybe, in general, I should be floating him a lot?
      Even more interesting, how can I float, when I'm OOP.

      Q: What do you thin about this line, when playing OOP?
      Here it is: I call Flop cbet. Then ck T and see what he does.
      If he checks back, then I can stab R and hopefully take the pot down, as
      he gets honest on the T and R?

      To be continued ...
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Anger86
      My actual hand in this example was K :spade: Q :heart: .
      My reasoning for doing, what I did was that - I didn't expect Villain to
      play value hands this way, because most of the time he should just call my
      raise on the flop.
      I should probably remember, that peaple do all kind of stuff on NL50 (Also me. :D ).
      Doing both - bluffing too much in these spots and also people who are playing
      only for value in these spots.

      Some player told me, that If I expect Villain to be bluffing a lot in this spot,
      then I should be rather calling down and let him bluff. OK, I like it.
      Problem is that he could be bluffing with Ax hands also.

      So my best option then would be to call down
      with hands like AJ or AQ, sometikes AK (AK - 3bet preflop sometimes).

      Value range:
      - When we talk about these hands = TT+, then it all comes back to pre-flop play.
      It is, when I call these hands, with a plan (which I plan pre-flop) to ck/c or ck/r flops,
      depending on a flop structure.
      - I also have to think about my 3bet range in this situation, as I sometimes
      want to 3bet-bluff in this spot.
      If I would always 3bet my air and always call premiums,
      then I would be a good target for a 4bet bluff.
      So, my strategy against this player could be to calls most of the premiums,
      3bet less (or bluff 3bet him until he starts to suspect, that I have no value hands in my 3bet range).
      Play some ck/r poker post-flop.

      Semi-bluffing range:
      I agree, but I would probably get rid of overcards in my bluff range and more
      flush draws like Q:heart: J:heart: , J:heart: T:heart: , T:heart: 9:heart: , etc.
      Q: What do you think about this plan?

      Plan B:
      - When we look at his stats in the first post, we can see that most of his
      aggression comes form Flop play,
      but on the T and the R he becomes more straight forward.
      So, he is Honest = Flop, Dishonest = Turn, River.

      Q: Maybe, in general, I should be floating him a lot?
      Even more interesting, how can I float, when I'm OOP.

      Q: What do you thin about this line, when playing OOP?
      Here it is: I call Flop cbet. Then ck T and see what he does.
      If he checks back, then I can stab R and hopefully take the pot down, as
      he gets honest on the T and R?

      To be continued ...
      I generally agree that he would rather b/c flop with his value hands and would 3-bet bluff with his air. But he can also have there hand like TT where he doesn´t really want to b/c and then see overcard or flushdraw so he would rather 3-bet flop and get all-in or A high flushdraws that would also crush your range.
      So for that reasons I really don´t like shoving over his 3-bet unless your plan was from the beginning to c/r light to induce 3-bet and then shove over his bluff.

      I agree, but I would probably get rid of overcards in my bluff range and more
      flush draws like Q J , J T , T 9 , etc.
      Q: What do you think about this plan?
      - like it, especially if he likes to 3-bet bluff and if he 3-bets for value it would also doing fine most of the times.

      Q: Maybe, in general, I should be floating him a lot?
      Even more interesting, how can I float, when I'm OOP.
      - if you c/c it looks a lot like you have pocketpair, so most players would give up on the turn and only barrel on scare cards, including also Q and K when you can easily c/c him down. But more common move would also be just leading flop and turn and maybe also river. Doubt he has there often anything and people won´t bluffraise that board with air, since you´re very often going bet/3-bet with your trips and flushdraws and would b/c your pairs

      Q: What do you thin about this line, when playing OOP?
      Here it is: I call Flop cbet. Then ck T and see what he does.
      If he checks back, then I can stab R and hopefully take the pot down, as
      he gets honest on the T and R?
      - yeah it is fine. You may also check it down, since KQ has showdown value.
    • Anger86
      Anger86
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.08.2008 Posts: 511
      Q: Maybe, in general, I should be floating him a lot?
      Even more interesting, how can I float, when I'm OOP.

      - if you c/c it looks a lot like you have pocketpair, so most players would give up on the turn and only barrel on scare cards, including also Q and K when you can easily c/c him down. But more common move would also be just leading flop and turn and maybe also river. Doubt he has there often anything and people won´t bluffraise that board with air, since you´re very often going bet/3-bet with your trips and flushdraws and would b/c your pairs


      This is something new to me as I'm usually playing ck/r F
      and also ck/c.
      If I have, for example, TT-AA, then I'm most likely ck/raising or ck/calling those hands.
      When I think about my range in general here, then I should also
      play in similiar fashion with my trips (67s or A6s).

      If I play those hands that way, then I can't really represent
      a hand and if he thinks, that I'm bluffing, he raises.

      Although I have a plan here:
      I could do both things with my value hands first and then see,
      which line would induce more bluffing stuff from Villain:
      1. bet/3bet;
      2. ck/raise.

      Q: What do you think about this plan in general?

      Q: Which line would induce more spewy/light raises in your experience?

      - For me, it looks like I'm just trying to take a pot away as none of us
      hits there anything most of the time. So, Villain can interpret this line as
      a bluff and maybe call down light with Ax or raise with other hands.

      Another point is that I can make pot bigger by Bet/3betting although,
      if he is bluffing I could just bet/call on the flop and ck/r T or ck/c T and ck/r R.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Q: What do you think about this plan in general?
      - should be fine, but usually players would not try to overplay in every pot, so don´t overthink that situation too much

      Q: Which line would induce more spewy/light raises in your experience?

      I think c/r looks a little more suspicious, since as I said player usually would not raise flop with air especially on low paired boards