Pushing range as button when in money.

    • CHARMANDER06
      CHARMANDER06
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.08.2010 Posts: 301
      Hey guys, I just encontered a situation that I would have done wrong in a game on the ICM trainer. 10man ICM with 50/33/25 payout structure.

      Hero is on button with : 2600
      SB: 9600
      BB: 6800

      Hero has A8ofs

      ICM says to fold...

      How can this be profitable? I mean next blind my stack is almost usless which means I would almost have to call the all in that the SB is going to push on me next hand or push in 2hands as small blind with 1800 chips left... the other dude has 9800... I dont know this seems like it would not be a very good move... but I suppose ICM is correct. Can someone please give some insight regarding this hand please.
  • 5 replies
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      Hi. Do you mean a 50-30-20 structure? How large are the blinds?
    • CHARMANDER06
      CHARMANDER06
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.08.2010 Posts: 301
      oh sorry forgot to post blinds.. was 300/600 and yes the structure was 50-30-20
    • Targetme
      Targetme
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.05.2009 Posts: 1,888
      dont always believe a machine
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      ICM Trainer ignores that you are about to hit the blinds, which slightly overvalues your stack. It also predicts that the blinds will often collide if you fold, and that if you push, you will sometimes pay the multiway penalty. In practice, the blinds may not collide as often as they do in the Nash equilibrium, and if the SB pushes, the medium stack probably will not call as widely as he can. On the other hand, ICM Trainer does not consider that the blinds may flat-call and then check it down, which really hurts you since you would need to beat both to avoid placing third, and A8o is not as strong in 3-way pots as it is heads-up.

      I think it's a common and very costly mistake to push too widely in situations like this. If you would push much worse quickly, you should rethink your play.
    • Navrark
      Navrark
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.01.2010 Posts: 313
      It is also possible that when you are in the Big Blind that the Small Blind will fold rather than Push, and you will gain the Blinds. That has always been my assumption regarding why ICM tells you to fold in those situations. But maybe ICM isn't that smart, lol.