[NL20-NL50] [NL50 RUSH SH] AK deep 5bet pot

    • HELLutek
      HELLutek
      Gold
      Joined: 19.07.2008 Posts: 739
      $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Holdem
      6 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG ($117.70)
      UTG+1 ($52.45)
      Hero (CO) ($170.80)
      BTN ($20.65)
      SB ($55.85)
      BB ($81.85)

      Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 6 players) Hero is CO K:heart: A:spade:
      UTG raises to $1, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3, 3 folds, UTG raises to $9.75, Hero raises to $22, UTG calls $12.25

      Flop: 8:spade: 6:spade: Q:heart: ($44.75, 2 players)
      UTG checks, Hero bets $16, UTG raises to $32, Hero folds

      Final Pot: $92.75

      UTG wins $89.75 (net +$35.75)

      Hero lost $38

      28/20 fold to 3bet 50% (3/6) 4bet 0

      3bet is std, wanted to end the hand right now with 5bet but didnt work. Calling 4bet with position could be better. Wanted to cbet small and then shove J/T/spade on the turn. His c/minraise surprised me. Maybe I should have checked back the flop.

      Really need advice on that one, both preflop and postflop.
  • 5 replies
    • fusionpk
      fusionpk
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,683
      I would flat pre, we don't achieve much by 3b'ing hes super rarely continuing with worse his.

      Normally when ppl 4b here with no dynamic, it's polarised, like they wouldn't be 4b'ing a strong but not nut hand knowing ur going to spazz out. Like here it's super likely KK+/bluffs or even just AA.

      So we have AK. vs his value range we should just be snap folding, but if he has bluffs then 5b'ing as a bluff with blockers seems good right? When he flats 5b I am so totally done with the hand.

      I abs hate your cbet, I am just c/folding, he so often just has AA/KK here and if we even included QQ your still dead.

      Here is what I think:

      Pre: flat > 3b/fold > 3b/5b | without reads.

      EDIT: just read your '3b is std', I kinda don't think it is, we are deep, his UTG range is perceived as strong, by 3b'ing AK we are just bluffing. Do you think he will call AQ OOP deep vs a perceived strong 3b? without history? it's hard for us to flop nut hands too, and we want really to be able to flop nut hands(or near enough nut hands atleast).

      Just my 2c, might not be correct.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Im almost never 3-betting AK preflop that deep. Like fusionpk said against his value range your pretty much dead if he decides to play for stack preflop. You may as well use A2o to do that 5bet bluff its just a waste of a good hand to do that with AK, especially with position.

      Also flatting 4bets with AKo is -EV with out a good plan. There just won't be to many flops you can continue with and even when yo do hit your K your still likely to be behind if he barrels off that deep.

      Generally speaking the deeper you are the less value a hand like AKo has since most of the time your best hand will be a 1 pair hand that you can't be putting 250bb into the pot.
    • HELLutek
      HELLutek
      Gold
      Joined: 19.07.2008 Posts: 739
      I'm reading it over and over and 5betting and cbetting that flop was really butchering the hand.

      But dunno about the 3bet.
      He has 50% fold to 3bet and we are deep - people like to call 3bets deep and play fit or fold.
      I'm not saying 3betting is better than flatting, would like to hear more opinions.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by HELLutek
      I'm reading it over and over and 5betting and cbetting that flop was really butchering the hand.

      But dunno about the 3bet.
      He has 50% fold to 3bet and we are deep - people like to call 3bets deep and play fit or fold.
      I'm not saying 3betting is better than flatting, would like to hear more opinions.
      Thats why you don't need AK to 3-bet him if his folding to c-bet anyway. AXs or SC you can bluff with just the same and they have more nut potential to make a flush or strait that you can stack off with 250bb deep, while with AK the best your going to flop is 1 pair type hand which when you do get action is basically never good once he puts 250bb into the pot.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      3-bet pf especially against min-raise is standard
      Question is what would you do if he 4-bets. I like more flatting, since if you 5-bet and he 6-bet shoves you really have to fold and if he is 4-bet bluffing with his Ax blocker you´d rather like to see flop hit your tptk and stack his weaker Ax hands
      Also you can bluffraise him ip if you feel he is weak or float and take pot away on the turn or just check down you AK high
      Postflop is fine. By checking you´re saying you have AK and have to guess on the turn if he is bluffing or valuebetting.
      Also you can continue barreling on the turn with favorable cards