Downswing MK II

    • Watto77
      Watto77
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2007 Posts: 206
      About two weeks ago I posted regarding a downswing that I was in. From top to bottom it was about 850bb and it forced me to go down a level. I had money from other poker sites and from TAF so I started again and worked back up from NL 10 to NL 25.

      I was up about $50 on NL 25(just like last time) and am now again in a downswing of about 450bb. I do not tilt what so ever and am frequently running into the most ridiculous hands of no quality.

      I can understand that this is a normal thing but now that I am in the midst of it a second time it is very testing.

      So naturally I start questioning my play. I am posting hands and seem to be playing solidly and following the SSS and strategies verbatim as a bronze player. I play 8 tables and it is not affecting my decision making abilities at all.

      I really don't give a shit about the money but I am disappointed that the time and effort I am putting into this is not achieving results. I was really looking forward to moving thru the levels but I cannot see it happening at this stage.

      Has anyone had this same problem. Any advice would be helpful
  • 9 replies
    • mikeymoo
      mikeymoo
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2007 Posts: 80
      I'm not really an authority on this, but you should probably reread all of the articles.

      The hand with the AQ that I just replied is pretty awful, no offense.

      You might be inadvertently playing less +ev than you shoul be, so downswings will be more common.
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
      Silver
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      my advice would be: work on your learn:play ratio

      You only posted three hands, and two of them were bad. Test post you were on a table with 6 players, and one with 7 players, which you should NEVER do, especially if you are a beginner. As mikey said, giving up on the flop with AQ was not good, but we all learn by correcting play, so that should be no problem. I post an average of about 5-10 hands a week (im "paying" to be a member of this site, so why shouldn't i?) and every handjudgement improves my game. Some even did improve my game severely.

      If you can read silver articles, then read them! There is a lot of common stuff about cash poker in there, about odds, outs, implied odds, etc. etc. Don't keep playing and playing if you are losing. Seek help, by reading more, reading the sss again, and especially go to sss coachings! Let someone review your play if that is within possibilities, and cut down on the number of tables so you can really put the learning material to the test.

      You say playing 8 tables doesn't change the way you play. No offense, but i'm pretty sure you are wrong. I play 8 tables myself, and it mechanizes your play. This is often a good thing, if you are a very experienced player, and get bored playing less then 8, but if you are not 100% on top of the game (and that is the most likely explanation for some severe downswings), it will hurt your play.

      It's a good thing that the money doesn't matter to you, so that is a good sign imo, and I can't say that you're a bad player, since I never got a chance to see how you played. Sample size of 3 hands is not very big. Just look at how many hands snowlee posted in the sss sample hands board. Xylere/berliner won't hurt you if you played a hand wrong, they are here for us to help us, take advantage of that!

      I hope this helped, and that you'll soon grind NL25. Good luck.
    • undercover82
      undercover82
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 813
      You have only been a member here for less than a month. So what results do you expect to achieve within that time limit?
      I ll tell you about myself : First 2 months i played an insane amount of hands , around 80k and the end result was exactly where i started , at 50$. It took me over 5 months to reach 1k. My overall profit on NL25 after 80k+ hands according to pokertracker is 90$.
      But none of this matters because eventually i got better and now i play NL400/600 full stacked and earning amounts that i would never believe i could one year ago when i first started. And 1 year is a very short amount of time.

      So yes , many people have had that problem. Most of them get dissapointed and quit , but the rewards for those who keep trying are amazing.
    • blackstone1
      blackstone1
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2007 Posts: 105
      Hi Watto

      I have the same problem as you but I play NL 100.
      my advice for what helped me get a little upswing lately,

      1/> Check undercover SSS videos ( you will love his funny accent )... hehe
      2/> Read these articles: Continuation bets, Shortstack Strategy: Steals and Resteals, How to play against other Short Stack Strategy player?
      3/> Find profitable games with high % of players per flop and good pot avg.
    • Watto77
      Watto77
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2007 Posts: 206
      I am sure that I can be a better player but I know that the majority of my losses have come from stuff like having KK 3 way and an Ace flopping which happened an amazing 16 out of 22 times. I get people hitting weak 4 card flushes and 4 card straights.

      I think the conti bet thing is very important.

      Thanks
    • Watto77
      Watto77
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2007 Posts: 206
      My plan for learning the material was to digest the basic and then play and then do the same for the bronze and then play etc etc. I wanted to do this so that as much as possible could sink in and that I wouldn't get ahead of myself.

      Some people have posted that I should get into the Silver articles to improve my game.

      What do you think?
    • Watto77
      Watto77
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2007 Posts: 206
      Don't be confused

      I may be ranked silver but that is only because of the points I have accrued.

      I have not read any of the articles for silver yet
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Originally posted by helemaalnicks
      my advice would be: work on your learn:play ratio

      You only posted three hands, and two of them were bad. Test post you were on a table with 6 players, and one with 7 players, which you should NEVER do, especially if you are a beginner. As mikey said, giving up on the flop with AQ was not good, but we all learn by correcting play, so that should be no problem. I post an average of about 5-10 hands a week (im "paying" to be a member of this site, so why shouldn't i?) and every handjudgement improves my game. Some even did improve my game severely.

      If you can read silver articles, then read them! There is a lot of common stuff about cash poker in there, about odds, outs, implied odds, etc. etc. Don't keep playing and playing if you are losing. Seek help, by reading more, reading the sss again, and especially go to sss coachings! Let someone review your play if that is within possibilities, and cut down on the number of tables so you can really put the learning material to the test.

      You say playing 8 tables doesn't change the way you play. No offense, but i'm pretty sure you are wrong. I play 8 tables myself, and it mechanizes your play. This is often a good thing, if you are a very experienced player, and get bored playing less then 8, but if you are not 100% on top of the game (and that is the most likely explanation for some severe downswings), it will hurt your play.

      It's a good thing that the money doesn't matter to you, so that is a good sign imo, and I can't say that you're a bad player, since I never got a chance to see how you played. Sample size of 3 hands is not very big. Just look at how many hands snowlee posted in the sss sample hands board. Xylere/berliner won't hurt you if you played a hand wrong, they are here for us to help us, take advantage of that!

      I hope this helped, and that you'll soon grind NL25. Good luck.
      Great post!

      @ Watto77: I think you should reread this post from helemaalnicks and stick to it 100%! That's the best thing you can do. Of course you are getting bad beats, but that happens to all of us. The essential point is to find the leaks in your game which cost you at least as much money as the bad beats do.

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • Watto77
      Watto77
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2007 Posts: 206
      Thanks for your advice. I am playing SSS

      I am sure that I can play better but here are some stats as to why I am in a downswing (from PokerTracker)

      AA (16 times) Won just the blinds 6 times, 5 times won on the flop for less than $2, only 1 double up.

      AKs/AK (52 times) Won the blinds 15 times, double thru 4 times, lost my stack 5 times to big pocket pairs and 4 times didn't improve

      KK (24 Times) 2 double up, lost my stack 4 times to AA, had to fold to an A 6 times

      So you can see and I can see it while I am playing that I am not getting paid off on my big hands which is very frustrating.

      I have played approximately 4k hands which is nothing I know.