Where to start in cashgames

    • mongomob
      mongomob
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.03.2011 Posts: 156
      Good day too all, i have been testing the waters in cash games a bit lately (have allways played SitnGo's) and i was wondering, wich cashgame level is it normal to start out in, seems an endless mountain too climb up the levels from 2NL (compared to my BR and ROI in SitnGo's) however if that is the case that i would miss out on some basic understanding off the difference of the formats, then of course i will,

      I have been trying the micro stakes both 10NL and 2. and feel that in 2NL you get up with almost anything, limping seems profitable there, and 10NL is just tables full off regular nitfest guys with VPIP 8% 6%... seems like ages untill you can steal enough blinds there for a shot at 25... lol...

      however i want to do this the right way, and all tips from players that have made this switch are appreciated, and all tips from cashgame players and ps'ers alike.

      thank you all and good luck at the tables =)
  • 11 replies
    • Wriggers
      Wriggers
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.07.2009 Posts: 3,250
      I think starting off at NL5 would be best. As you said, NL10 is an absolutel nit fest, whereas NL5 was by far the most profitable for me in terms of $$$ when moving up. Over the 22k hands or so I played there I ran at about 14bb/100, and that's a pretty sustainable win rate. Why not try mixing in NL5 tables with NL10 because resteals and steals are a lot more profitable at NL10 than they are at NL5, and that's a must-have move for when you move up to NL25 :)
    • dubadal
      dubadal
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2008 Posts: 263
      I agree with Wriggers - NL5 is the way to go. Just make sure that you follow BRM.
      NL2 on PS and FTP is a toxic combination of calling stations, nit regulars and crazy "I dont care so I push" people. Variance is probably even higher there than in 1$ sngs.
      NL5 is somewhat more reasonable and still full of great donks (like me). Also, if you are used to 1-5$ SNG winnings, NL5 will provide a slightly more visible income, if you roll good. As opposed to NL2, where being up 5BI over a BSS session, which is a good result, means 10 bucks and might at first seem discouraging compared to what you make from making 1st place in 5$ FR sng.
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Which site are you playing on?

      If Full Tilt then you could potentially play Rush. Because of the software it gets lots of fish trying it out. It also means that there is no table selecting and therefore alot less of these "nits2 that you seem to struggle against.

      Also if you are uncomfortable playing deep, as sooon as your stack gets to an uncomfortable amount you can just exit that game and sign into a new one. You can play 4 tables for each stake/game and if you can 4 table you will get some pretty decent rakeback that will also help boost the bankroll.

      If you do decide to play you can post some hands in my blog and I'd be happy to help :)

      GL :f_cool:
    • Veeziits
      Veeziits
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.10.2010 Posts: 81
      is it important to climb through limits, or I can just start with NL25 if my bankroll allows it, I never have played NL before, but im planning to do that as soon as FT finally verifys my ID, I thought I will start with NL25, but I'm not sure if it is ok to start from that level
    • Wriggers
      Wriggers
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.07.2009 Posts: 3,250
      If you have never played NL Cash Games before I would recommend climbing through the limits. You could probably get away with starting on NL10 and grinding up, but NL25 actually required you knowing what you're doing a bit to win there. A typical ABC style fit or fold approach won't yield so much profit at NL25 as you have to start adjusting to regs etc.
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by mongomob
      [...] 10NL is just tables full off regular nitfest guys with VPIP 8% 6%... seems like ages untill you can steal enough blinds there for a shot at 25... lol...
      Play at 6max then. Not only they are by nature more loose/aggressive, you have more options of table selecting (and therefore leaving the table if you feel no one at yours want to put the chips in the middle).

      I don't know if 6max is a good place to start, since the pace is faster... but Harrington on his book about the theme says you should always start playing 6max (no matter how traumatic it may be). Reason being you learn faster how to deal with loads of marginal situations/decisions, and the transition from 6 to 9/10 player tables is waaay easier (just tighten up a notch) than the other way around.

      Good luck, and please play on my table while you're learning :s_biggrin:
    • Veeziits
      Veeziits
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.10.2010 Posts: 81
      Originally posted by Wriggers
      If you have never played NL Cash Games before I would recommend climbing through the limits. You could probably get away with starting on NL10 and grinding up, but NL25 actually required you knowing what you're doing a bit to win there. A typical ABC style fit or fold approach won't yield so much profit at NL25 as you have to start adjusting to regs etc.
      hmm... and after how many hands as winning player it would be ok to move up in your opinion?
    • Wriggers
      Wriggers
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.07.2009 Posts: 3,250
      I'd say 20k hands if you're winning at a solid rate then you're OK to try and move up if your roll allows you to :)
    • mongomob
      mongomob
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.03.2011 Posts: 156
      Thank you all so much for your replys, i have decided to follow the advice of playing at 5NL and mixing it in with some 10NL...

      For you that have recently played through these limits, do you recommend when 3-4 tables open at once have all on same level? i think that would be better...
      And also, i have been playing for about a year and am a winning SitN'go player, do you recommend following the SSS or BSS? and also do you recommend following it to the letter, or can i mix it up a bit, based on my reads, etc...
      I am trying to look at this as a completly new form of game, and feel like a beginner, however i think i might get bored (no push fold, bubble) etc when following the strategy someone else wrote to the letter... is this a bad veiw on things? should i just STFU and follow the instuctions like a manual? lol...

      thnx again all =) see you at the tables, feel fre too take my cents as i learn, but remember i'll be back for your dollars... =)
    • mongomob
      mongomob
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.03.2011 Posts: 156
      i have been playing 2NL when i was testing the waters, about 1k hands or more, steady winrate, am i missing out of some lessons by skipping straight too 5NL? should i grind from 2NL and am i being to impatient?
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by mongomob
      i have been playing 2NL when i was testing the waters, about 1k hands or more, steady winrate, am i missing out of some lessons by skipping straight too 5NL? should i grind from 2NL and am i being to impatient?
      I've been crushed back more than once to NL2, so I'd take more time if I were to start climbing again.

      That said... if you do proper BRM it should be fine, if you have no problem moving back down if things don't go right.

      I heard one lesson the hard way, I think many did: went to "test" a higher limit with 1/4th of my BR on the felt. Within the very first hands I got AA and managed to get all-in pf. A dream! But villain had KK and the K came. The AA didn't crack, I cracked. No need for such stupidity :f_mad: