mss top pairs?

    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      Hello everyone!!
      I'm still struggling with the top pair concept in mss

      if i have tp and I have position on another player and he bets 3/4 of the pot surely there is a good chance he is calling a continuation bet? should I fold to this bet even if I had top pair, why is it not profitable to call? surely most hands in poker win with top pair? sorry to ask this but I really need to get this in my head!!!! :P
      could someone please help me to realise why it is a bad play!!!

      thanks

      Roo
  • 7 replies
    • sindeon
      sindeon
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.10.2010 Posts: 133
      Hi Roo,

      this is always tough decision for me. I think that any experienced player/coach will show up with his advice...
      In this situation I always check stats of this villain - his post flop agression and
      how often he c-bets, how often he folds against 3bet...
      What is villain´s usual hand range?
      Also depends on the kicker (have lost too much A9 vs AJ+...).



      Ok, this is more "bump" of this thread then useful advice. ;)

      Cheers,
      Ondra
    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      Originally posted by sindeon
      Hi Roo,

      this is always tough decision for me. I think that any experienced player/coach will show up with his advice...
      In this situation I always check stats of this villain - his post flop agression and
      how often he c-bets, how often he folds against 3bet...
      What is villain´s usual hand range?
      Also depends on the kicker (have lost too much A9 vs AJ+...).



      Ok, this is more "bump" of this thread then useful advice. ;)

      Cheers,
      Ondra
      Thanks Ondra thats a step in the right direction !!! :P
    • pyure
      pyure
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.09.2008 Posts: 258
      Assuming you're playing standard mss, you probally open raised or more likely 3 bet preflop (since you're IP on the flop), meaning that on the flop villian is donk betting into you when you've displayed considerable hand strength preflop.

      In this case its likely he has at least top pair, but more likely a set or overpair.

      Either way, it's a bit of a tough one, but without stats or reads I usually just let it go.

      That's my thoughts on it anyway :)
    • noisecore
      noisecore
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2010 Posts: 5,221
      Totally player dependant
    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      Originally posted by pyure
      Assuming you're playing standard mss, you probally open raised or more likely 3 bet preflop (since you're IP on the flop), meaning that on the flop villian is donk betting into you when you've displayed considerable hand strength preflop.

      In this case its likely he has at least top pair, but more likely a set or overpair.

      Either way, it's a bit of a tough one, but without stats or reads I usually just let it go.

      That's my thoughts on it anyway :)
      thanks that has really helped !!!! :P
    • mineriva
      mineriva
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.04.2008 Posts: 913
      I also had difficulty with that but do yourself a favour and do the following:

      Apply the HM filter as follows:
      1) In the main filter tab make the effective stack "less than 50"
      2) In the More filters tabs select the "allin on the flop"
      3) Select "plugging the leaks -3"

      Now add "avg allin EV%".

      On my database it seems very clear that TOPPAIR + GREAT DRAW and OVERPAIR have more than 50% equity and very importantly TPGK (queen) without good draw have only 40% equity.
    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      Originally posted by mineriva
      I also had difficulty with that but do yourself a favour and do the following:

      Apply the HM filter as follows:
      1) In the main filter tab make the effective stack "less than 50"
      2) In the More filters tabs select the "allin on the flop"
      3) Select "plugging the leaks -3"

      Now add "avg allin EV%".

      On my database it seems very clear that TOPPAIR + GREAT DRAW and OVERPAIR have more than 50% equity and very importantly TPGK (queen) without good draw have only 40% equity.
      Hey sounds good will look into this!!!

      Thankyou :P