a possible reason why winning players win

    • belayd
      belayd
      Global
      Joined: 17.03.2011 Posts: 1,021
      I have been a NL FR cash grind for my entire poker career, however short that has been, and I have been a losing player. It used to bewilder me when armies of winning players kept telling me how badly 2NL and 4NL players suck, because that was contrary to my experience.

      Just today, however, I played an MTT (a depositors freeroll on Cake Poker) and the quality of player was significantly worse than I'm used to on the cash tables. Is it possible that most of the fish and donkeys have migrated from cash to SNGs and MTTs and the winning players who ride my butt about my "negativity" just happen to be SNG and MTT players, who meet a significantly worse quality of opponent?

      The freeroll was for first-time depositors, so it wasn't your typical freeroll (or so I think). It had 191 entrants and paid the top 40 from a $500 prize pool. I finished 16th and collected $5.40, but I could have done significantly better except for a couple of ugly suckouts by total fish.

      So I guess all I'm asking is whether I have a correct impression of tournament players as being significantly worse than cash players. If that's the case, then I'm definitely going to start playing tournaments, deposit bonus be damned.
  • 4 replies
    • bradomurder
      bradomurder
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,329
      I reckon they are worse in MTTs but a factor in that could be that i'm way better at MTTs. you still find pretty retarded people at the cash tables though. At MTTs you get a lot of "good" players at the end who turn into nits and start playing scared money too so that helps a lot.

      plus just knowing good push/fold ranges is enough to give you an edge over most of the feild

      A freeroll is a pretty bad indication of player quality though, even one with a half decent payout
    • dubadal
      dubadal
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2008 Posts: 263
      I guess its often attitude + skill question.
      In cash you are always ready (presumably) to go broke with good hand and then just rebuy. In tourney it's a matter of either winning it or getting ITM. Especially micro-low stakes tournaments will have lots of players on scared money. Naturally lots of people who come in "just for fun" or play crazy too. That field evens out only by the end of the tourney, as there are plenty of good tournament players on all limits, you just might be lucky not to meet them in the beginning.

      Also, most "smart" people that are on short bankroll realize that tournament variance is deadly and will play cash to grow BR, as there is an illusion of guaranteed growth...

      Same "smart" people, once their BR can handle MTT variance will come in & play micro MTTs as a LAG in early stages and adjust towards semi-tigth aggressive towards late stages. Ergo you will often not have a chance to see a difference between a donk and meaningful LAG in early tournament stages :f_cool:
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      MTTs are the fishest for sure compared to cash games, especially on high stakes like sunday million and other sunday majors on tilt and stars has super soft fields since more then half of entrants are weekend players or they get in from sats.

      However you will not find a single good play in NL5 cash game either so there really isn't anything to whine about. Even up to NL200 the games are still pretty ok with enough fishes if your table selecting skills are semi decent. You can also think about moving to some fishier euro sites if games on tilt and start are 2 tough for you.
    • belayd
      belayd
      Global
      Joined: 17.03.2011 Posts: 1,021
      Originally posted by dubadal
      I guess its often attitude + skill question.
      In cash you are always ready (presumably) to go broke with good hand and then just rebuy. In tourney it's a matter of either winning it or getting ITM. Especially micro-low stakes tournaments will have lots of players on scared money. Naturally lots of people who come in "just for fun" or play crazy too. That field evens out only by the end of the tourney, as there are plenty of good tournament players on all limits, you just might be lucky not to meet them in the beginning.

      Also, most "smart" people that are on short bankroll realize that tournament variance is deadly and will play cash to grow BR, as there is an illusion of guaranteed growth...

      Same "smart" people, once their BR can handle MTT variance will come in & play micro MTTs as a LAG in early stages and adjust towards semi-tigth aggressive towards late stages. Ergo you will often not have a chance to see a difference between a donk and meaningful LAG in early tournament stages :f_cool:
      :) All duly noted. I owe you one.