MSS= very exploitable?

  • 16 replies
    • Saruniks
      Saruniks
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2010 Posts: 1,213
      Originally posted by tryhardnoob
      /discuss

      ofcourse BBS players of pokerstrategy can exploit MSS but they can exploit BBS too.

      Never had I problems with short stackers, though they suckout a lot. But Allin ev is going up allmost allways
    • tryhardnoob
      tryhardnoob
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2010 Posts: 1,287
      I think you mean BSS, I think its pretty easy to exploit ppl using the basic MSS. You can just float everytime IP and if he check the turn fire a bullet.
    • MathhNes
      MathhNes
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.08.2009 Posts: 953
      anything you do is exploitable, it's a fact
    • tryhardnoob
      tryhardnoob
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2010 Posts: 1,287
      Originally posted by MathhNes
      anything you do is exploitable, it's a fact
      ye thats pretty obvious, but feels like MSS is more exploitable and how do we MSSers counter this?
    • zilltine
      zilltine
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.03.2010 Posts: 395
      Originally posted by MathhNes
      anything you do is exploitable, it's a fact
      how about perfectly balanced range?
    • tryhardnoob
      tryhardnoob
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2010 Posts: 1,287
      Originally posted by zilltine
      Originally posted by MathhNes
      anything you do is exploitable, it's a fact
      how about perfectly balanced range?
      any suggestion on what that is? :tongue:
    • AKM247
      AKM247
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.05.2010 Posts: 412
      Guys. . . . .

      Without stating the obviously or hypothetically fabricating ideal situations, what serious flaws can we find/discuss/resolve here about the MSS?

      Sometimes I feel that by only playing good hands - I kind of have to wait not just for good hole cards, but also a fish or station to be involved in the hand also. This is more true when I am playing during the day (GMT+1) as opposed to the evening and early hours against Americans and South Americans seems to go much better. . . .does anyone else notice this? (this may just be me but it's something to have more discussions about the MSS)

      With regards to exploitable, I have an example of a hand where I feel I got owned by betting out;

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.02/$0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)

      Known players:
      SB:
      $3.63
      BB:
      $3.12
      UTG2:
      $4.65
      MP1:
      $3.96
      MP2:
      $5.00
      MP3 (Hero):
      $1.90
      CO:
      $1.70
      BU:
      $3.25


      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K, K.
      UTG2 folds, MP1 calls $0.05, MP2 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, CO folds, BU calls $0.25, 3 folds, 2 folds, MP1 folds.

      Flop: ($0.62) 4, 3, 3 (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.40, BU calls $0.40.

      Turn: ($1.42) 2 (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.25(All-In), BU calls $1.25.

      River: ($3.92) J (2 players)


      Final Pot: $3.92.

      Results follow: (Highlight to view)

      Hero shows two pairs, kings and threes(Kh Ks).
      BU shows three of a kind, threes(3s 8s).

      BU wins with three of a kind, threes(3s 8s).

      anyway, playing the strategy is fine and there are sessions when I am up. A couple of weeks ago I was running really hot but now I am just breaking even back n fourth between $40 - $60. Where do you guys find you make most or things are giong really well/badly for you?

      Thanks,
      AKM
    • biogas
      biogas
      Gold
      Joined: 22.07.2010 Posts: 384
      In order to exploit some1, one needs to pay attention. But I cannot see how one pays attention when multitabling? Stats does not tell full story anyway, and there is not much time to analyse stats in deep during play.
    • AKM247
      AKM247
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.05.2010 Posts: 412
      I think that at 4/5 tables it's still possible to be observant. But tbh I am not a fan of mass multi-tabling 20 odd tables because I don't think you can take note and be attentive to your opponents' play.

      biogas, how's your sessions going for you recently? :)
    • tryhardnoob
      tryhardnoob
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2010 Posts: 1,287
      Originally posted by AKM247
      I think that at 4/5 tables it's still possible to be observant. But tbh I am not a fan of mass multi-tabling 20 odd tables because I don't think you can take note and be attentive to your opponents' play.

      biogas, how's your sessions going for you recently? :)
      Hi, you can still be pretty observant playing 20 tables. I play with "StackandTile" It's a freeware made so when you do a VPIP action on that table it jumps out of the stack and into tile, otherwise all tables are in a stack. Though I only play 16 tables I know players making reads when playing 24 tables.

      You have plenty of time to see for example if the guy have time tells or not. At least I do but I play the preflop game like a robot. Don't have to think about it just do it :P
    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      Originally posted by AKM247
      I think that at 4/5 tables it's still possible to be observant. But tbh I am not a fan of mass multi-tabling 20 odd tables because I don't think you can take note and be attentive to your opponents' play.

      biogas, how's your sessions going for you recently? :)
      I agree with you here akm, I have been learning this strat at low levels and just playing 1 table at a time and feel I have learnt so much more!!!
    • biogas
      biogas
      Gold
      Joined: 22.07.2010 Posts: 384
      Originally posted by AKM247

      biogas, how's your sessions going for you recently? :)


      one step forward, two backwards... Waiting for rakeback to get break even.
    • marlonmlk
      marlonmlk
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.03.2009 Posts: 57
      hey AKM, I think you just did the right move.

      A dude calling 5bb with 83s with a stack of $ 3.25 and hits a set on the flop (a crappy set btw).

      You know how many times he's going to hit that? I'm not good in odds, But I'm sure that in the long run, you always gonna win.

      Just check the equilator lol:

      Equity Win Tie Loss Hand
      Player 1: 83,679% 83,464% 0,430% 16,107% KK
      Player 2: 16,321% 16,107% 0,430% 83,464% 8s3s


      To fold a hand like this you need alots of reading and stats, because that hand is pure trash.

      I dunno if someone shares the same thought lol, but anyway, I would do the same thing as you, as everybody else, I think. :D
    • AKM247
      AKM247
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.05.2010 Posts: 412
      @ tryhardnoob - I agree with you as far as pre-flop goes, my play is pretty much second nature and decision making is easy. For me personally, I like to keep the number of tables at a absolute maximum of 8. And I always have a window with video play back open for notes and reviewing hands etc. Colour coding players could make it easier to mass mutli table to but I guess each ot their own.

      I wanted to know about the stack and tile freeware you mention? Sounds useful, any more info please mate?

      @roopopper - If one table is working for you then I'd defo stick to it until your comfortable for multi tabling. The article about this advises;

      * You have your limit beat.
      * You have mastered your strategy.
      * You can make the right decisions quickly in standard situations.

      Then you can start to multi-table. Glad to hear you feel progression in your game though :)

      @biogas - I m kinda in the same situation!! I feel like I am making the right play, I notice there can be a couple of hands in my session that I should'nt have played and this can cause problems. Yesterday I was up $10 within half an hour and agreed to myself it's enough profit for a session but then kept playing and broke even. :(

      I guess a bit of tenacity will help me overcome this though. (with zero tolerance on mistakes!) Slowly but surely!!!

      The hand - Ya I mean after a lot of thinking I concluded it was the right play. But I felt he had something on the flop and this is what annoyed me slightly. But again I could'nt fold the Ks because long term they are profitable :)

      Anyone know when mineriva is recording his session for Gerv? lol Should be good to watch! I am also thinking of finally starting a blog . . . any of you have one or thinking of starting one?
    • tryhardnoob
      tryhardnoob
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2010 Posts: 1,287
      Originally posted by AKM247
      @ tryhardnoob - I agree with you as far as pre-flop goes, my play is pretty much second nature and decision making is easy. For me personally, I like to keep the number of tables at a absolute maximum of 8. And I always have a window with video play back open for notes and reviewing hands etc. Colour coding players could make it easier to mass mutli table to but I guess each ot their own.

      I wanted to know about the stack and tile freeware you mention? Sounds useful, any more info please mate?

      @roopopper - If one table is working for you then I'd defo stick to it until your comfortable for multi tabling. The article about this advises;

      * You have your limit beat.
      * You have mastered your strategy.
      * You can make the right decisions quickly in standard situations.

      Then you can start to multi-table. Glad to hear you feel progression in your game though :)

      @biogas - I m kinda in the same situation!! I feel like I am making the right play, I notice there can be a couple of hands in my session that I should'nt have played and this can cause problems. Yesterday I was up $10 within half an hour and agreed to myself it's enough profit for a session but then kept playing and broke even. :(

      I guess a bit of tenacity will help me overcome this though. (with zero tolerance on mistakes!) Slowly but surely!!!

      The hand - Ya I mean after a lot of thinking I concluded it was the right play. But I felt he had something on the flop and this is what annoyed me slightly. But again I could'nt fold the Ks because long term they are profitable :)

      Anyone know when mineriva is recording his session for Gerv? lol Should be good to watch! I am also thinking of finally starting a blog . . . any of you have one or thinking of starting one?
      search on it on google, I dont wanna get a yellow card for linking it or something >.<
    • Heffron89
      Heffron89
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2009 Posts: 813
      Everything u do in poker is exploitable so is MSS but I guess ur playing micro or small stakes?

      At nl25 or under there are barely any peopel that pay attention to this neither are they adapting correct.

      But if MSS as playstyle is exploitable uhm.. It all depends on the player playing it, some BSS players r hyper exploitable some are extremely tough to exploit so I guess its the same on MSS