didn't quite understood something about outs and odds

    • MishkaR
      MishkaR
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.11.2010 Posts: 36
      i just free-played an A2o hand from the BB. the river was 398 or something like that and we both checked and then the turn gave us 5
      which means i have a gut shot for a straight on the river but my opponent raised.
      can i use the outs chart in this situation ?
  • 3 replies
    • Scarmaker
      Scarmaker
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.06.2009 Posts: 152
      I dunno if u can use the "outs chart", but in this spot, as you say, u got 4 outs meaning you will hit your card approx. 9-10% of the time (if there is one card to come, you have little over 2% per out).

      This means that you are getting good pot odds only if the amount you are about to call will be 10% of the total pot. Example for this hand:

      After the turn is dealt, the pot is 180$. Your opponent bets 20$, which means, that after you call that $20, the pot will be 180+20+20 = 220$ with your call being 20/220 = 9,09% of the pot. Since your chance of hitting your card is more than 9,09%, the call is correct.

      Other example:
      The pot on the turn is 250$. He bets 150$, so in order of having a good pot odds you need to have at least 150/550 = little over 25% (u don't have to always do the exact calculation, just quickly figure out the approx. number) equity, so that's 25/2,xx ...about 12 outs.


      It is also worth mentioning that it's not only your pot odds that you should consider when thinking about calling the bet. There are also implied odds and as I call them "fake" outs.

      Implied odds simply mean that you are not calling expecting to win only the amount that is currently in the pot, but also something extra on the last street - in the first example this would mean that you are not calling $20 to win $180+$20 but more that than as you can generally expect that he will either bet or call your bet on the river too.

      "Fake" outs are such outs that will complete your hand, but will not turn it into a winning one. In the first example, if you had A2 of hearts and the board read 3s 9c 8d 5s, the possible 4 of spades on the river could have given your opponent flush beating your made hand.

      It is almost impossible to integrate these implied odds and fake outs into the calculation of pot odds, but you generally take these things into consideration, especially when it's a very close spot.
    • MishkaR
      MishkaR
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.11.2010 Posts: 36
      great answer, thank you very much.
    • Vepof
      Vepof
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2010 Posts: 72
      If you play NL, sometimes the size of villain's stacks can overcome those calculations...

      Even if you have a mediocre draw like a gutshot, and the price of the bet related to the pot decreases yours ODDs, you can consider calling if:

      - Villains stack is good enough
      - If you hit your card your hand will be the winning hand
      - If you're almost sure that you will get paid. (very important)