[NL2-NL10] MSS - Top pairs/overpairs

    • viccini
      viccini
      Global
      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 337
      I'm loosing a lot of money with Top pairs/overpairs on the flop. Should I've played any of these hands differently? Let me give you 3 examples:


      1


      MP2 - VPIP: 42, PFR: 11, 3B: 0, AF: 2.8, Hands: 45

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.25/$0.5 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Known players:
      BB:
      $19.50
      MP2:
      $33.20
      MP3:
      $20.00
      CO:
      $44.35
      BU (Hero):
      $15.00
      SB:
      $23.45


      Preflop: Hero is BU with J, T.
      MP2 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.75, 2 folds, MP2 calls $1.25.

      Flop: ($4.25) T, 3, 9 (2 players)
      MP2 checks, Hero bets $3.00, MP2 raises to $10.00, Hero raises to $13.25, MP2 calls $3.25.

      Turn: ($30.75) A (2 players)


      River: ($30.75) 8 (2 players)


      Final Pot: $30.75.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows a pair of tens(J T).
      MP2 shows two pairs, aces and tens(T A).

      MP2 wins with two pairs, aces and tens(T A).
      ----------------


      2 (almost the same flop than the first example =D)

      BB - VPIP: 30, PFR: 20, 3B: 0, AF: 2.8, Hands: 92


      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.25/$0.5 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)

      Known players:
      MP3:
      $27.65
      CO:
      $10.50
      BU:
      $6.00
      SB (Hero):
      $16.80
      BB:
      $24.30


      Preflop: Hero is SB with J, J.
      3 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, BB calls $0.75.

      Flop: ($2.5) T, 3, 9 (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.75, BB raises to $4.25, Hero raises to $15.55, BB calls $11.30.

      Turn: ($33.6) 9 (2 players)


      River: ($33.6) 8 (2 players)


      Final Pot: $33.6.
      Results follow:


      Hero shows two pairs, jacks and nines(J J).
      BB shows a full-house, nines full of tens(9 T).

      BB wins with a full-house, nines full of tens(9 T).

      ---------


      3

      BB - VPIP: 17, PFR: 14, 3B: 5.9, AF: 10.0, Hands: 349


      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.25/$0.5 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)

      Known players:
      MP3:
      $10.75
      CO:
      $19.90
      BU:
      $15.00
      SB (Hero):
      $21.80
      BB:
      $52.50


      Preflop: Hero is SB with K, A.
      3 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, BB calls $0.75.

      Flop: ($2.5) 7, K, Q (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.00, BB raises to $5.00, Hero calls $3.00.

      Turn: ($12.5) 8 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $7.50, Hero raises to $15.55, BB calls $8.05.

      River: ($43.6) 5 (2 players)


      Final Pot: $43.6.
      Results follow:


      Hero shows a pair of kings(K A).
      BB shows two pairs, kings and queens(K Q).

      BB wins with two pairs, kings and queens(K Q).
      thx in advance! :f_thumbsup:
  • 4 replies
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Hey viccini,

      I know you're just posting examples so I guess it's fine, but otherwise one hand per thread, please.

      As far as it goes for top pairs, they're bet/fold hands according to the articles and I believe your examples clearly show why. Specially the example #1 where you only have a TPMK is a clear bet/fold.

      Example #2 on the other hand is well played. Overpair is a strong enough hand to go broke with and on this particular board there are tons of worse hands that can pay you off, you just got unlucky this time.

      Best regards,
      burek2000
    • viccini
      viccini
      Global
      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 337
      Originally posted by burek2000
      Hey viccini,

      I know you're just posting examples so I guess it's fine, but otherwise one hand per thread, please.

      As far as it goes for top pairs, they're bet/fold hands according to the articles and I believe your examples clearly show why. Specially the example #1 where you only have a TPMK is a clear bet/fold.

      Example #2 on the other hand is well played. Overpair is a strong enough hand to go broke with and on this particular board there are tons of worse hands that can pay you off, you just got unlucky this time.

      Best regards,
      burek2000
      Ok. And what about example #3? Should I fold TPTK in a blinds battle situation against this opponent? Which hands should I consider he's raising me with?

      thx!
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by viccini
      Originally posted by burek2000
      Hey viccini,

      I know you're just posting examples so I guess it's fine, but otherwise one hand per thread, please.

      As far as it goes for top pairs, they're bet/fold hands according to the articles and I believe your examples clearly show why. Specially the example #1 where you only have a TPMK is a clear bet/fold.

      Example #2 on the other hand is well played. Overpair is a strong enough hand to go broke with and on this particular board there are tons of worse hands that can pay you off, you just got unlucky this time.

      Best regards,
      burek2000
      Ok. And what about example #3? Should I fold TPTK in a blinds battle situation against this opponent? Which hands should I consider he's raising me with?

      thx!
      I'm sorry, I didn't realize it was a blind battle. In this case I play the way you did. I don't see myself folding TPTK here, specially because I think he is capable of even bluffraising flop and worse top pairs(which would rarely be the case if you openraised UTG or MP). So, I like your line in example #3, because you keep his bluffs in his range that way and you put him in a tough spot with a hand like JT.

      Just to make sure though, in general top pairs are still better to bet/fold, just in this example I think it would be too weak because of the circumstances and even here some additional reads on the villain would be nice as how much does he defend his blinds, what the metagame between you two is and so on.

      Best regards,
      burek2000
    • viccini
      viccini
      Global
      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 337
      Originally posted by burek2000
      Originally posted by viccini
      Originally posted by burek2000
      Hey viccini,

      I know you're just posting examples so I guess it's fine, but otherwise one hand per thread, please.

      As far as it goes for top pairs, they're bet/fold hands according to the articles and I believe your examples clearly show why. Specially the example #1 where you only have a TPMK is a clear bet/fold.

      Example #2 on the other hand is well played. Overpair is a strong enough hand to go broke with and on this particular board there are tons of worse hands that can pay you off, you just got unlucky this time.

      Best regards,
      burek2000
      Ok. And what about example #3? Should I fold TPTK in a blinds battle situation against this opponent? Which hands should I consider he's raising me with?

      thx!
      I'm sorry, I didn't realize it was a blind battle. In this case I play the way you did. I don't see myself folding TPTK here, specially because I think he is capable of even bluffraising flop and worse top pairs(which would rarely be the case if you openraised UTG or MP). So, I like your line in example #3, because you keep his bluffs in his range that way and you put him in a tough spot with a hand like JT.

      Just to make sure though, in general top pairs are still better to bet/fold, just in this example I think it would be too weak because of the circumstances and even here some additional reads on the villain would be nice as how much does he defend his blinds, what the metagame between you two is and so on.

      Best regards,
      burek2000


      :s_thumbsup: thx!