MSS works?

    • Kvitar
      Kvitar
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.09.2008 Posts: 6
      Hi everyone, i tried to play MSS but unfortunatelly i have to admit i didnt made any profit,obv. question appears if it is really profitable.Of course I cant imagine pokerstrategy would bring strategy which is wrong so please if there is anyone who crush(i dont mean BE without RB,but some solid winrate) MSS and is making really nice profit,let us know and motivate us!
      Thanks a lot!!
  • 14 replies
    • foulkezboyz
      foulkezboyz
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      Joined: 28.03.2011 Posts: 161
      Not so sure myself recently, but I'm still pounding at it and I'm still making missteps now and then, often resulting in unprofitable situations, also combine that with a TERRRIBLE DAY FOR MY QQ+ has rather shot my overal winrate.

      Regardless, I'm sure Pokerstrategy wouldnt release a bad strategy.


      And working further on it will lead my to the heaven of profit.
    • roopopper
      roopopper
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      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      Its working for me although I only play one table at a time at micro stakes, I have found that its important to table select, and watch for players who like to steal my blind as there seems to be profit in reraising at that spot. (I do stray slightly from the charts if I have a co or bu who is stealing a lot from me!!
      At the lower levels at party poker the regs do tend to play like rocks which means my raises tend to get folded to a lot, but if there is a couple of fish at the table my win rate goes up fairly fast!!
      Just checked my stats and in the last 500 hands( i know its only a small sample) I'm 41 bb/100.
      I think there is definatley a need for more articles and more advanced articles.

      But I must add I was a losing player and now at the very worse im break even moving into winning player, I feel I'm at the point where I'm actually starting to see how i can move up to bss from mss, in fact I have started buying in for more than I really should to do this , but as I only play really low stakes and my bankroll is healthy im not too worried!!! :P

      Hope this helps!!!

      Roo
    • foulkezboyz
      foulkezboyz
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      Joined: 28.03.2011 Posts: 161
      I agree, also if your not finding success you should join our study group.




      Roopopper you got skype sorted?
    • roopopper
      roopopper
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      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      Originally posted by foulkezboyz
      I agree, also if your not finding success you should join our study group.




      Roopopper you got skype sorted?
      lol no sorry will try again tomorrow!!!! Dont give up on me though i think the study group is a really great Idea!!! I love the way you have really taken to pokerstrat and I think you will do really well!!!
      i'm just starting to realise that the more I study poker the more I win!!! Its taken me ages to figure this out ( I'm sooooo dumb!!!)
      I'm spending more time reading than I am playing, but I have started to notice when I study then play I win!!!! :P
    • Navrark
      Navrark
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      Joined: 27.01.2010 Posts: 313
      My understanding of what MSS SHOULD be, is a completely mindless strategy of:

      In Situation A: Do this
      In Situation B: Do this
      In Situation C: Do this

      And that if you follow the charts perfectly and exactly you will achieve a small win-rate.

      Is this a correct understanding of MSS? Because surely SSS was designed to be exactly that, a mindless strategy that earned a small profit.

      As well, I would like to ask what kind of win-rates people are achieving.

      Thanks
    • gxtwo
      gxtwo
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.12.2010 Posts: 1,176
      Im fairley new to poker and have been using the MSS.
      my winrate for NL2 was 9.65bb/100 over 1.8k hands.
      I used a tighter steals and 3bet hand range as i didnt feel comfortable when i get called.

      im currently playing NL5 and have a BR for NL10 but i want to profit 1k BB's before i do.

      the part of the strategy i stray from the most is post flop play, I prefer to use stats, reads and odds.

      i want to get to gold so i can watch all the MSS videos but my tracked account is on fulltilt and im currently playing on stars :f_cry:
    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      Originally posted by Navrark
      My understanding of what MSS SHOULD be, is a completely mindless strategy of:

      In Situation A: Do this
      In Situation B: Do this
      In Situation C: Do this

      And that if you follow the charts perfectly and exactly you will achieve a small win-rate.

      Is this a correct understanding of MSS? Because surely SSS was designed to be exactly that, a mindless strategy that earned a small profit.

      As well, I would like to ask what kind of win-rates people are achieving.

      Thanks
      Its for begginers to get an understanding of the game, I have learnt a lot from mss and now im starting to open up my game with the help of stats and other articles I am a losing/break even player who needed some basic info like this to help me get going,, yeah sure if you want to just learn the mss strat from the charts and never move on then maybe it could just be a small profit, but for players like me it is the stepping stone I needed. I knew nothing about blind steals and resteals or 3 betting!! I think if you really want to make money you have to start somewhere and build from that point!!

      Roo
    • bobdefete
      bobdefete
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.08.2008 Posts: 81
      Ive just started playing cash games this month. I use MSS and play rush .02/.05.

      3176 hands so far (dont have a lot of time to play :( )

      20.79 $ profit

      12.8 BB / 100 hands


      I believe its a good strategy for the low limits since fishes are ready to give you their money easily.
      This strategy suits me for rush poker since opponents dont have any read on me , i just play big hands and try not to get sucked out !
    • Bondy5
      Bondy5
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      Joined: 29.03.2011 Posts: 22
      I have played about 20,000 hands and I'm down around $7.

      I dont believe purely sticking to the chart works, you have to adapt to the game which is now what i'm starting to do.

      For example when I have been playing NL4 someone that raises utg around 4x bb will almost always 4bet or go all-in to your 3bet, so you have to be willing to go all-in. AJ and AQ in this spot just isn't profitable for me and its better just not 3betting at all in this position.
    • Elroch
      Elroch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.02.2011 Posts: 150
      Originally posted by Bondy5
      I have played about 20,000 hands and I'm down around $7.

      I dont believe purely sticking to the chart works, you have to adapt to the game which is now what i'm starting to do.

      For example when I have been playing NL4 someone that raises utg around 4x bb will almost always 4bet or go all-in to your 3bet, so you have to be willing to go all-in. AJ and AQ in this spot just isn't profitable for me and its better just not 3betting at all in this position.
      It's against the strategy to reraise here with AJ or AQ. Take a second look.
    • Mopenza
      Mopenza
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      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 267
      I guess if u want to be a master in MSS u need to play in crap sits liek ongame, ipoker, cose there is just always some 3-4 fishes with 40+VPIP on tables I mean vs then u will be profitable almost 100% of time but vs tight regs and rock, its most like u will lose some money atlast if they know u play SSS or MSS its just easy to outplay, master to read a HUD and I think on micros its all what u need :) but still remember some day u will need to learn BSS so my advise to u start it now don't waist your time with this SSS MSS, I think its just for players who just started playing poker so they understand some hand ranges etc. and dont lose so much learning :) GL
    • Elroch
      Elroch
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      Joined: 08.02.2011 Posts: 150
      I'm coming to the conclusion that the basic version of MSS (all that is accessible to anyone below gold status) may only be only good to beat fish on 2NL. It's basically good against players with certain attributes:

      (1) They must not use a HUD - the stats give big clues about your vulnerabilities
      (2) They must not realise that your unbalanced hand ranges are rather easy to read
      (3) They must not recognise that if you check out of position on the flop or turn, they can take the pot every time
      (4) They need to be so blind that even though you only play 1 in 14 hands and then play conservatively post flop, they will call you down with crappy hands, or throw their chips in preflop with substandard holdings.

      Even at ipoker 4NL, I find attempting to follow the rules leads to a number of things happening.

      (1) People realise that with your stats of 7/7 or so, they should mostly simply get out of the way when you open raise
      (2) If they do play against you, they will find that 3-betting is profitable, based on fold equity alone. This is a feature of the system - it is exploitable by design.
      (3) Special case of this is restealing, which is profitable, even though the MSS is quite tight stealing
      (4) Even 4-betting versus a resteal is profitable, so even if some idiot decides to 4-bet with his 98o from the button after you resteal, it will make money.
      (5) After the flop, even fairly lousy players will catch on that if you check they can bet and win the pot.

      I am not sure how I managed to make enough earlier at 4NL to mean today's losses leave me with 0.5BB/100 for every hand I have played at this level using the MSS, but I don't think I can count on enough bad players to make a profit even at this level in the future.
    • pzhon
      pzhon
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      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      The MSS is not complete. It does not tell you how to play in every situation. You should also be willing to override the basic recommendations when you have reads, and you should keep your eyes open at the table instead of hoping that there will be some simple hand chart and strategy which guarantees a profit.

      The MSS does not protect you from variance. If you want to eliminate variance, quit poker (although there is plenty of variance from other sources in life). Whether you play well in or not, sometimes you will win in the short run, and sometimes you will lose.

      The basic MSS presented by PokerStrategy is a simple strategy which lets beginners survive and even win slightly in many low stakes games. It gives you hints about factors which are important, which you should think about more as you develop your skill as a poker player. As you get better, you should notice more and more ways to improve on the MSS which may be too complicated to tell to complete beginners. You will also learn to exploit many of your opponents who play parts of the basic MSS.
    • Elroch
      Elroch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.02.2011 Posts: 150
      Thanks pzhon, many good points there. I apologise for being over-negative - I was definitely in a bad mood yesterday, with results that certainly have a component that is nothing to do with the MSS system rules.

      My understanding is that the basic MSS is essentially prescriptive, like the basic SSS. I would certainly agree it is simple, and emphasises tight aggressive play (but perhaps with a tendency towards weak tight?). I imagine the advanced MSS is less prescriptive, and wish I had gold status already, so I could see. :)

      It certainly always makes sense to adapt to opponents with particular characteristics, if they are predictive of future behaviour. The MSS exploits loose passive players very well, I am sure, but the problem is that above 2NL, it seems the large majority of players are quite tight (with occasional exceptions) and they are getting increasingly aggressive, in my experience, sometimes excessively so, which is exploitable using methods not part of the basic MSS. Calling stations are rare, although I think the average player may still call too much.

      It is an inevitable fact that any system that attempts to exploit certain types of weakness will itself be exploitable as a result. Ignoring this leaves one vulnerable. I am sure more advanced MSS players are constantly thinking of this.

      The bottom line is it's every poker player's responsibility to play as they need to. If a particular system isn't appropriate for my game, it's my responsibility to not use it.