Is poker worth the time it costs.

    • Dumbledork
      Dumbledork
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.07.2010 Posts: 101
      Honestly, I've been playing 6-8 hours a day for a week and what do I have to shor for my efforts? Over 30 losses in tournaments.

      I even lost the 3 dollars I won in cash games yesterday in the Daily Dollar.

      I just wonder, are there any of you who actually have won some money so far?

      I'm thinking about completely stopping. It has been fun, but as I really don't win anything I don't know if I should still bother.

      Any of you who have thought about quitting?
  • 85 replies
    • ppfives
      ppfives
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.11.2009 Posts: 4
      the harder you work the luckier you get!!!

      spend some time studying the game, get holdem manager and look at your leaks. its starting to work for me :)
    • jasonforan
      jasonforan
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2010 Posts: 357
      first of all tournaments have huge variance compared to sit n gos and cash.Its not uncommon to go 100 buy ins without a cash possibly even alot more.Secondly you played 6-8 hours a day but how many hours did you spend studying,reading articles,watching videos and analysing your game and posting hands on the forum?Im currently grinding $5 sit n gos and admit i currently dont spend enough time either studying and posting hands on the forum.But as soon as im finished my college exams in 2 weeks im going to make it my business to make it a top priority to improve my game.Hope you do too :D
    • Dumbledork
      Dumbledork
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.07.2010 Posts: 101
      What do you mean posting hands? Asking people here if I played it right, or not?

      Is holdem manager free? I got holdem indicator and it only works on the play chip tables
    • bradomurder
      bradomurder
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,329
      click on the forums page, scroll right down to all the strategy discussion ones and read some of the hands in the "hand evaluations" bit this should give you an idea.

      you can get holdem manager and poker tracker on a free trial for a couple of weeks to try it. might be worth watching a video where they use stats when you get it. just search videos for stats and whatever game you want to play.
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      playing the stakes you're playing: certainly not
    • jasonforan
      jasonforan
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2010 Posts: 357
      yep check out the hand evalutation on the forums for the type of game you play where experienced players and even pros will help you on your game :s_biggrin:
    • Alafoe
      Alafoe
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.08.2008 Posts: 202
      probably not
    • terpesheva
      terpesheva
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2009 Posts: 156
      Poker is not easy money. You work hard - you get the reward.
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Hey Dumbledork,

      Some fantastic info ITT already :s_cool:

      I think what is really important with poker is you ask yourself "what do I want from poker" I think there are two main reasons people play poker for.

      1) Enjoyment
      2) To make money


      Enjoyment... People enjoy playing poker, its a great adrenalin rush when you get dealt aces and its great when you hit your flush card on the river. Instead of thinking about poker as;

      "omg I spent x hours and have nothing to show from it"

      Why not treat it more like;

      "Ok I'm going to spend 4 hours playing today, I could go to the cinema and get some enjoyment but with poker I could have just as much fun AND I could even get paid for it"


      To make money.. People see Jonathan Duhamel at 21 (?) winning millions of pounds and they want to emulate his success. Unfortunately it isn't that easy. Instead of thinking about time spent as;

      "Omg my hourly rate was $6 per hour and I spent 12 hours playing tonight this isn't worth it"

      Why not treat it more like;

      "If I wanted a great job such as a Doctor I would have to spend years doing 12 hour shifts in the library and I would end up in debt, my tuition here is alot more fun and I even get paid for it, when I make my way to the mid stakes I won't have a huge debt behind me that I will have to pay off but I will actually have a bankroll that I have accumulated, cool"

      Be a optimist not a pessimist :f_cool:
    • belayd
      belayd
      Global
      Joined: 17.03.2011 Posts: 1,021
      Hi, NinjaChick, I love your tattoos. ;)

      I started playing under some kind of guidance only a month ago and was extremely enthusiastic about it at first, but the initial upswing was followed by an ugly downswing and I kind of gave up. Only a serious, enduring interest in poker has kept me going. But others have told me that they spent a couple of months bleeding money before they turned the corner. Sure, it's great to hear the stories of players who crush the game from the second they start playing and never drop below the break-even points in their bankrolls, but not every winning poker player was always a winner. One pro (I forget his name) went totally broke twice but managed eventually to turn poker into a full-time career. And, when Chris Ferguson did his $1 to $100,000 challenge, yes, he did turn $1 into $100,000 in a few months, but before that happened he lost his $1 and had to reload EIGHT times. (This latter fact is not generally known.)

      Someone in this thread said that MTTs have high variance. That's absolutely true, especially if you play to make it to final table instead of playing to win pennies by barely getting into the money. Playing for final table involves taking more risks and therefore suffering more bad beats. As the strategy articles point out, a cash table is like a tournament with infinite rebuys for the entire time you play. A tourney table either has rebuys only for the first hour or doesn't have rebuys at all.

      My suggestion is that you think about whether you can handle the variance of MTTs. If long waits before a payday wear you out, try playing cash. The standard deviation for cash is only about 85, which is about one-tenth the standard deviation for MTTs.

      Alternatively, you can try STTs (such as single-table sit and gos). Those also have less variance and, if you're any good, you should be able to cash in them often enough at least to break even. Heck, even I break even in STTs--or was breaking even on them on Full Tilt until I lost enthusiasm because of what happened Friday. My current site (Cake) has no action on STTs or I'd still be playing them.

      But the other poster was right in saying you need to work on your game if you're going to be a winner. Just playing without hand analysis and study is not enough. I admit I'm a lazy minimalist who never learned how to study, but even I'm trying to be diligent.

      Hope some of these thoughts helped.
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      You seem familiar... Were you in that movie harry potter???
    • belayd
      belayd
      Global
      Joined: 17.03.2011 Posts: 1,021
      Originally posted by ihufa
      You seem familiar... Were you in that movie harry potter???
      That was Professor Dumbledore, the head of the college Potter attended. Dumbledork's name sounds like a play on Dumbledore's name.
    • izzo510
      izzo510
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.02.2011 Posts: 17
      Originally posted by belayd
      he lost his $1 and had to reload EIGHT times. (This latter fact is not generally known.)
      reloading $1 eight times is possible?
    • Dumbledork
      Dumbledork
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.07.2010 Posts: 101
      Originally posted by belayd
      Originally posted by ihufa
      You seem familiar... Were you in that movie harry potter???
      That was Professor Dumbledore, the head of the college Potter attended. Dumbledork's name sounds like a play on Dumbledore's name.
      That's exactly where I got the name from. In fact I use Dumbledork as my pen name for the stories I write and post on the internet.
    • UFO626
      UFO626
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2011 Posts: 21
      every time I tell people I make money playing poker, they think I just sit there all day and just click click click and think its so easy. they dont understand how tough it is to even beat the micros. its easy when you're running hot everything falls into your favor, but there's' still a lot of thinking involved in every hand. you have to pay attention to everything that goes on at a table. you cannot just sit there and play your cards. when you 3bet a button steal for example you cant just do that randomly every time, you have to figure out which players would likely fold and which players would call or 4bet etc then you gotta figure out what type of hands they would do that with. then you gotta use whatever read you have, use it in conjunction with the board texture, and use all that information to come up with the most +ev play.

      do this 600 hands/hr playing micros 10NL and you can make 6 bucks an hour.
      poker is not easy money, it is HARD. but I love to do it and thats why I play
    • Dumbledork
      Dumbledork
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.07.2010 Posts: 101
      Some answers to the other posters:

      I have no plans to become a poker pro or make a fortune. You may laugh, but my first goal at the moment is to earn enough FT points to buy a Full Tilt baseball cap.

      The thing that frustrates me is that I really don't win anything in tournaments. So far I've only won some money in cash games, and I think that's where I'll stay.

      Tournaments simply take up too much time and I get angry after playing in a tournaments for three hours just to finish 2-3 places before the money.

      On playing method I tried out at first was the one suggested in the tutorial here. Honestly, that doesn't work at all.

      How are you supposed to win if you only play the few recommended hands (A/A, A/K, K/K, K/Q, Q/Q, J/J)?

      First of all, how often do you get hands like that?

      Secondly, how often do you hit anything on the flop with those hands.

      Thirdly, what do you think the other players will do after you start betting on a hand after playing no hand for 20-30 hands? It's simply, they fold.

      Now, honestly, how are you supposed to place in a tournament with a playing strategy like that?
    • PhoenixPhreak
      PhoenixPhreak
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2011 Posts: 335
      Originally posted by Dumbledork
      How are you supposed to win if you only play the few recommended hands (A/A, A/K, K/K, K/Q, Q/Q, J/J)?

      First of all, how often do you get hands like that?

      Secondly, how often do you hit anything on the flop with those hands.

      Thirdly, what do you think the other players will do after you start betting on a hand after playing no hand for 20-30 hands? It's simply, they fold.

      Now, honestly, how are you supposed to place in a tournament with a playing strategy like that?
      First, More realistically, over a broad number of hands, you will get the stronger starting hands about 15% of the time. With your exact list, you should get those starting hands about 4.22% of the time. Though I would argue (with position kept in mind) that TT, 99, 88, AQ, AJ, KJ, AT, QJ, are all good hands as well, though maybe not in the very top group, they are still very profitable (and brings your % to 10.4% of the time).

      With the blinds mixed in (and they do occasionally hit) and aggression in late position, you will definitely see some improvement.

      Secondly, You hit much better with those hands, and with AA, KK and so on, you often don't need to hit too hard. Just make sure you are reading board texture well.

      Third, if you bet a bit here and there with even as low as 10% of your hands, that will be about once a lap, it really won't be too obvious to other players. If the other players are too quick to notice your exact aggression, I would move down a limit or two and see if you are able to beat the easier buy-ins.

      Keep studying and you'll do fine!
    • Dumbledork
      Dumbledork
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.07.2010 Posts: 101
      What I always play for one big blind lately is every pocket pair. If you get a third one on the board you have a very good chance of winning the hand, although I often lose against a crappy straight or a crappy flush.

      Yesterday I almost threw the computer out of the window after losing in the tournaments where I almost qualified for the next round.

      I had K/Q. On the flop there was K/K/8. The player next to me bet and I followed. There was a 5 on the turn. The player bet a larger sum and there was a 7 on the turn.

      The other player went all in and I followed. And what did he have? A/K/.

      Aaaargh. I was so angry.
    • PhoenixPhreak
      PhoenixPhreak
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2011 Posts: 335
      Do you have the actual hand history?
      Also, do you use any programs like Poker Tracker? What were the opponent's stats?
      A great way to improve is to discuss played hands. If you can post the hand, we can get some discussion going. I'm sure it'd help me improve too!