Defending blinds..

    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 456
      Just looking over my positional stats to see where my biggest leaks are before moving up to nl10 sh and I'm making $$ in every position but the blinds obviously.

      I'm losing 20.5bb\100 from the small blind and 25.48bb\100 from the big blind with vpip 17.3 pfr 11.2 sb and vpip 11.3 pfr 6.3 from BB. I 3bet 4.4% from sb and 4.6% from BB.

      Is there anything obvious I'm doing wrong here or do you need more stats?

      Nothing to do with the blinds but I c-bet way too often (80%) and I know I'm losing money here but I hate being bluffed off pots when I show blatant weakness by checking when I've been the pre-flop aggressor. What criteria do you guys use for not c-betting when you have say a small pp or AK\AQ?
  • 9 replies
    • m3ta
      m3ta
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2009 Posts: 1,240
      Hey I've just checked my blind defend stats.
      Fold SB to steal : 82.6
      Fold BB to steal: 79.5

      I 3 bet a bit from Blinds (9.7% in SB, 7.4% in BB)

      SB vs BU I 3bet almost any hand I want to play.

      Cbeting:

      I guess ur stats look something like this:

      Flop 80% Turn 35% River 35%, this is bad because floating with almost any2 is good here.

      U cbet flop with no plan for the hand. If I have just nothing and I am OOP i will give up and c/f. But if i have EQ I will barrel more. Like KhQh on Jh7d2s even OOP I will c bet here 100% 2OC + BDF +BDS and i can barrel any Heart and any T Q K A on Turn, 19 outs to barrel and all of them will give us the best madehand (likely) or a nutdraw.
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 456
      Originally posted by m3ta
      Hey I've just checked my blind defend stats.
      Fold SB to steal : 82.6
      Fold BB to steal: 79.5

      I 3 bet a bit from Blinds (9.7% in SB, 7.4% in BB)

      SB vs BU I 3bet almost any hand I want to play.

      Cbeting:

      I guess ur stats look something like this:

      Flop 80% Turn 35% River 35%, this is bad because floating with almost any2 is good here.

      U cbet flop with no plan for the hand. If I have just nothing and I am OOP i will give up and c/f. But if i have EQ I will barrel more. Like KhQh on Jh7d2s even OOP I will c bet here 100% 2OC + BDF +BDS and i can barrel any Heart and any T Q K A on Turn, 19 outs to barrel and all of them will give us the best madehand (likely) or a nutdraw.
      Thanks for this... It seems I call too much from the blinds rather than 3-betting? Obv, I'm not gonna 3-bet TT against a UTG raise but provided the raise comes from CO\BU then I should 3-bet every hand I play? Or maybe just flat with hands that play easily like sc's? My fold SB to steal % is 87.2 and BB 85.

      My C-bets are 78% flop, flop cbet success 49.1, Turn cbet 53.5.. Can't see a stat for river but I'm only betting the river for value generally or as a 3rd barrel bluff only if there are obv draws that have missed. I also fold flop to cbet 71.6% of the time.. Is this good or bad or what? lol

      Is this play super exploitable? At the time I think that I have good reasons for playing this way but I'm leaking money somewhere as my win rate isn't that good for the stakes I play (5bb\100) so could do with all the help I can get!

      Thanks
    • m3ta
      m3ta
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2009 Posts: 1,240
      Originally posted by Wurble
      Originally posted by m3ta
      Hey I've just checked my blind defend stats.
      Fold SB to steal : 82.6
      Fold BB to steal: 79.5

      I 3 bet a bit from Blinds (9.7% in SB, 7.4% in BB)

      SB vs BU I 3bet almost any hand I want to play.

      Cbeting:

      I guess ur stats look something like this:

      Flop 80% Turn 35% River 35%, this is bad because floating with almost any2 is good here.

      U cbet flop with no plan for the hand. If I have just nothing and I am OOP i will give up and c/f. But if i have EQ I will barrel more. Like KhQh on Jh7d2s even OOP I will c bet here 100% 2OC + BDF +BDS and i can barrel any Heart and any T Q K A on Turn, 19 outs to barrel and all of them will give us the best madehand (likely) or a nutdraw.
      Thanks for this... It seems I call too much from the blinds rather than 3-betting? Obv, I'm not gonna 3-bet TT against a UTG raise but provided the raise comes from CO\BU then I should 3-bet every hand I play? Or maybe just flat with hands that play easily like sc's? My fold SB to steal % is 87.2 and BB 85.

      My C-bets are 78% flop, flop cbet success 49.1, Turn cbet 53.5.. Can't see a stat for river but I'm only betting the river for value generally or as a 3rd barrel bluff only if there are obv draws that have missed. I also fold flop to cbet 71.6% of the time.. Is this good or bad or what? lol

      Is this play super exploitable? At the time I think that I have good reasons for playing this way but I'm leaking money somewhere as my win rate isn't that good for the stakes I play (5bb\100) so could do with all the help I can get!

      Thanks
      Against a Villian with ur stats I open any2 on the BU and then I cbet almost any Flop and I am printing money.
      Fold to cbet 71% is way too high and u make cbet insta profitable vs u.

      SC in Blinds (45s-89s)

      I will almost never flat such a hand vs Steal, because u rarely hit a good enough pair too call some streets. U are getting urself in a -EV situation here because ur hand usually has less than 50% EQ vs BU Range.

      I 3 bet or Squeez here very often unless I'm BB and the fish in SB calls BU open.

      Ofc ur range depends on Villians ORR and fold to 3 bet etc. If he Folds 90% to 3 bets u might consider calling AA sometimes and 3 betting 97s instead.
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 456

      Against a Villian with ur stats I open any2 on the BU and then I cbet almost any Flop and I am printing money.
      Fold to cbet 71% is way too high and u make cbet insta profitable vs u.

      SC in Blinds (45s-89s)

      I will almost never flat such a hand vs Steal, because u rarely hit a good enough pair too call some streets. U are getting urself in a -EV situation here because ur hand usually has less than 50% EQ vs BU Range.

      I 3 bet or Squeez here very often unless I'm BB and the fish in SB calls BU open.

      Ofc ur range depends on Villians ORR and fold to 3 bet etc. If he Folds 90% to 3 bets u might consider calling AA sometimes and 3 betting 97s instead.

      Thanks again, I appreciate your help.

      My fold to cbet %: I guess my reasoning for this is I don't feel I'm getting correct odds for a call which I suppose means that I think I'm behind 71.6% of the time :f_confused: I'm sure that's probably not the case but I struggle with calling when I don't know why I'm calling - Something I need to put more thought into definitely.

      Say you are CO and call a 21\17 MP OR with 77 and the flop comes KJ4r, villain c-bets.. Are you calling? And if so, what on the turn? My biggest fear in this kind of situation is not knowing where I stand once I've called. Quite often I'm in this spot with 22-99 + SC's and I've no idea what to do but fold. Do you have any standard rules for these situations or is it completely villain\stat dependant?

      SC's... I see your point. I have been calling sc's from the blinds with the call20 rule figuring if I hit (which isn't often) and I stack someone every once in a while it's good but the big flops don't come along all that often and peeps don't readily offer their stacks each time they do so I will change this. Also, with a flush lower than Q high I'm not generally happy playing for stacks unless against an uber fish because I always find myself crushed by better so it's another reason not to call with such hands.

      I've dropped the number of tables I play to 6 (from 12) because all of my losses are from non-showdown winnings. I'm losing an absolute ton without seeing a showdown at nl5 and I've realised I need to think a lot more about individual situations than I always thought.

      What stakes do you play?
    • m3ta
      m3ta
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2009 Posts: 1,240
      The 77 Hand:

      Id gernerally fold here, if u think about MP range u are crushed EQ wise on that board. Against a broadway hand u are either dead or slightly ahead (2OC + GS + [BDF]).

      With SC u should never be in that spot because calling 65s vs MP is -EV. Unless he is very very bad.

      I am playing nl50 sh (hu) I only have a 18k samlpe till now but my winrate is 5ptBB/100, I played nl25 for quite a while 12-15 tabling, I did beat the stake maybe like 1,5ptBB/100, but I didnt really improve on my game.
      I play like 4-8 tables now, my non-sd are still falling but it has gotten much better. I will move up to nl100 if I have more than 50 stacks (atm about 40 stacks).

      U can add me in comtool if u want.
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 456
      Originally posted by m3ta
      The 77 Hand:

      Id gernerally fold here, if u think about MP range u are crushed EQ wise on that board. Against a broadway hand u are either dead or slightly ahead (2OC + GS + [BDF]).

      With SC u should never be in that spot because calling 65s vs MP is -EV. Unless he is very very bad.

      I am playing nl50 sh (hu) I only have a 18k samlpe till now but my winrate is 5ptBB/100, I played nl25 for quite a while 12-15 tabling, I did beat the stake maybe like 1,5ptBB/100, but I didnt really improve on my game.
      I play like 4-8 tables now, my non-sd are still falling but it has gotten much better. I will move up to nl100 if I have more than 50 stacks (atm about 40 stacks).

      U can add me in comtool if u want.
      What's comtool? And what's your nick? Thanks for offering, it'd be good to chat with someone who knows what they're talking about because I clearly don't!
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      Originally posted by Wurble
      Just looking over my positional stats to see where my biggest leaks are before moving up to nl10 sh and I'm making $$ in every position but the blinds obviously.

      I'm losing 20.5bb\100 from the small blind and 25.48bb\100 from the big blind with vpip 17.3 pfr 11.2 sb and vpip 11.3 pfr 6.3 from BB. I 3bet 4.4% from sb and 4.6% from BB.

      Is there anything obvious I'm doing wrong here or do you need more stats?

      Nothing to do with the blinds but I c-bet way too often (80%) and I know I'm losing money here but I hate being bluffed off pots when I show blatant weakness by checking when I've been the pre-flop aggressor. What criteria do you guys use for not c-betting when you have say a small pp or AK\AQ?

      your stats are pretty good :) given that f you were folding every blind you would lose 100bb/100 from BB and 50BB/100 from SB . So I say WD for losing so little.
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 456
      Originally posted by thazar
      Originally posted by Wurble
      Just looking over my positional stats to see where my biggest leaks are before moving up to nl10 sh and I'm making $$ in every position but the blinds obviously.

      I'm losing 20.5bb\100 from the small blind and 25.48bb\100 from the big blind with vpip 17.3 pfr 11.2 sb and vpip 11.3 pfr 6.3 from BB. I 3bet 4.4% from sb and 4.6% from BB.

      Is there anything obvious I'm doing wrong here or do you need more stats?

      Nothing to do with the blinds but I c-bet way too often (80%) and I know I'm losing money here but I hate being bluffed off pots when I show blatant weakness by checking when I've been the pre-flop aggressor. What criteria do you guys use for not c-betting when you have say a small pp or AK\AQ?

      your stats are pretty good :) given that f you were folding every blind you would lose 100bb/100 from BB and 50BB/100 from SB . So I say WD for losing so little.
      Thanks! I've been speaking to m3ta on skype and it turns out my leaks were just about everywhere else :f_confused: All getting sorted now :s_biggrin:
    • sapheal
      sapheal
      Global
      Joined: 23.02.2008 Posts: 1,015
      Originally posted by Wurble
      Just looking over my positional stats to see where my biggest leaks are before moving up to nl10 sh and I'm making $$ in every position but the blinds obviously.

      I'm losing 20.5bb\100 from the small blind and 25.48bb\100 from the big blind with vpip 17.3 pfr 11.2 sb and vpip 11.3 pfr 6.3 from BB. I 3bet 4.4% from sb and 4.6% from BB.

      Is there anything obvious I'm doing wrong here or do you need more stats?

      Nothing to do with the blinds but I c-bet way too often (80%) and I know I'm losing money here but I hate being bluffed off pots when I show blatant weakness by checking when I've been the pre-flop aggressor. What criteria do you guys use for not c-betting when you have say a small pp or AK\AQ?
      You need to defend blinds more and extract value due to reverse implied odds, ie. in spots when you have villain dominated. When 3betting, you must learn how to play postflop, because ofc defense itself is okay, but one may lose money constantly (leak) when he gets to 3bet pot OOP. Esp, when your 3bet grows and people expect you to be strongly polarized.

      cheers,
      Michal