[NL2-NL10] NL4 FR - TP+FD = shove?

    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Check this hand out, does it make any sense or was I just lucky?


      PartyGaming - $0.04 NL - Holdem - 9 players

      BB: $1.94
      Hero (UTG): $6.85
      UTG+1: $4.88
      MP: $3.72
      MP+1: $4.00
      LP: $1.50
      CO: $4.00
      BTN: $4.38
      SB: $4.23

      SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

      Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has J:club: A:club:

      Hero raises to $0.12, UTG+1 calls $0.12, fold, fold, LP raises to $0.20, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.08, UTG+1 calls $0.08

      Flop: ($0.66, 3 players) 5:club: A:diamond: 9:club:
      Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, LP bets $0.31, Hero calls $0.31, UTG+1 raises to $1.87, LP calls $0.99 and is all-in, Hero raises to $6.65 and is all-in, UTG+1 calls $2.81 and is all-in

      Turn: ($11.32, 3 players) 2:club:

      River: ($11.32, 3 players) Q:heart:

      UTG+1 shows 5:heart: 5:diamond: (Three of a Kind, Fives) (PreFlop 41%, Flop 68%, Turn 19%)
      LP mucks T:heart: A:heart: (One Pair, Aces) (PreFlop 24%, Flop 1%, Turn 0%)
      Hero shows J:club: A:club: (Flush, Ace High) (PreFlop 35%, Flop 31%, Turn 81%)
      Hero wins $0.00
      Hero wins $6.42
      Hero wins $4.34

      Cheers!
  • 9 replies
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Oh, one more thing: you guys have to be tired of me posting losing KK hands, I know. I even told more than once I'd start folding KK pre-flop. But here is a funny one, just for a laugh:


      PartyGaming - $0.04 NL - Holdem - 8 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      Hero (MP+1): $4.00
      CO: $4.00
      BTN: $3.85
      SB: $3.24
      BB: $4.03
      UTG: $4.60
      UTG+1: $4.37
      MP: $0.99

      SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

      Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has K:spade: K:diamond:

      fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.12, fold, BTN raises to $0.20, fold, BB calls $0.16, Hero calls $0.08

      Flop: ($0.62, 3 players) K:heart: T:diamond: 6:heart:
      BB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets $0.44, fold, Hero raises to $1.00, BTN calls $0.56

      Turn: ($2.62, 2 players) 9:club:
      Hero bets $1.70, BTN raises to $2.65 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.95

      River: ($7.92, 2 players) A:spade:

      Hero shows K:spade: K:diamond: (Three of a Kind, Kings) (PreFlop 18%, Flop 90%, Turn 95%)
      BTN shows A:diamond: A:club: (Three of a Kind, Aces) (PreFlop 82%, Flop 10%, Turn 5%)
      BTN wins $7.53

      At least I'm playing inside my br so I could laugh A LOT at the time (still giggling).

      Cheers! :f_love:
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello luizsilveira,

      First of all, you are welcome to post as many hands you want, but could you try to separate them so it would be easier for us to concentrate on one hand, that's the only criteria I'd ask. :D

      Hand #1
      Not much to add, I'd go broke there as well with TP+nutFD while they could be holding there easily a lot worse Ax hands even. There is as well a lot dead money already in the pot and we are getting pretty good odds/equity.

      Hand #2
      Preflop: Basically I'd just 4bet and get it in preflop.
      Postflop: Rather bet yourself, don't slowplay on flop. You still have to protect. And not much you can do, I'd basically even ship it on flop Check/Shove.

      Best regards.
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by veriz

      Hand #2
      Preflop: Basically I'd just 4bet and get it in preflop.
      Postflop: Rather bet yourself, don't slowplay on flop. You still have to protect. And not much you can do, I'd basically even ship it on flop Check/Shove.

      Best regards.
      About this hand, I knew from the player his min-raise was AA. So no sense to actually shove pre-flop, I really just called the raise for set value. Almost any other player I would have shoved indeed, especially considering a "3bet" from the BTN and another caller.

      Then again OTF I could have donked, then I'm not sure. You are right it would probably have worked. But I was sure with AA and a flush there he would bet no matter what. Then with the BB folding I didn't feel I had to raise all that much to get it in by the turn.

      And I didn't quite feel I needed to protect against 2 outs :f_mad:
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      And *if* I shove pre-flop, this is what happens almost every time:


      PartyGaming - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players

      BTN: $1.78
      SB: $1.91
      BB: $1.34
      Hero (UTG): $4.18
      MP: $4.13
      CO: $4.62

      SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

      Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has K:spade: K:heart:

      Hero raises to $0.12, fold, CO raises to $0.36, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.00, CO raises to $4.62 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.18 and is all-in

      Flop: ($8.42, 2 players) 3:heart: 3:diamond: 3:club:

      Turn: ($8.42, 2 players) 6:heart:

      River: ($8.42, 2 players) Q:heart:

      Hero shows K:spade: K:heart: (Full House, Threes full of Kings) (PreFlop 18%, Flop 8%, Turn 5%)
      CO shows A:spade: A:diamond: (Full House, Threes full of Aces) (PreFlop 82%, Flop 92%, Turn 95%)
      CO wins $0.00
      CO wins $8.00

      It's being hard for me to see it as profitable.

      And it's funny as KK for me has been a losing hand. For a loooong time.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      If you are loosing with KK then likely you have a leak in playing huge PPs like AA/KK or just your sample size ain't enough. 10-20k hands is not a sample size. ;)
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      How about this one just now?


      PartyGaming - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players

      Hero (BB): $11.51
      UTG: $4.04
      CO: $4.00
      BTN: $4.39
      SB: $6.23

      SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.04

      Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has K:heart: K:club:

      UTG raises to $0.12, CO calls $0.12, fold, SB calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.56, fold, CO calls $0.44, SB calls $0.44

      Flop: ($1.80, 3 players) Q:club: 2:club: A:spade:
      SB checks, Hero bets $1.00, CO calls $1.00, fold

      Turn: ($3.80, 2 players) J:diamond:
      Hero checks, CO bets $2.44 and is all-in, fold

      CO wins $3.61

      With those many limpers I thought about shoving pre-flop. Then I thought about raising to $0.6. But who calls 54 calls 60, so no difference there.

      Should I cbet there or not? I find awful not to cbet that flop.

      Then on turn I don't see how I could call. What do I beat? TT- and air. Plus the only hands I see it would make sense for him to play like that are JJ, AJ, AQ. Maybe even AK/QQ, since he is VERY passive preflop (as you could see). And the truth is I beat nothing, so I folded. Of course it may not be a good fold, I don't know.

      As you can see by my stack, I was doing good... but KK hands are really denting my bankroll...
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Please could you open new thread for new hands. :)

      Preflop: You could basically even raise it like $0,70.
      Postflop: While being in multiway pot we likely get only value from some draws, therefore I might even just Check behind and decided what my actions will be on turn.
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by veriz
      Please could you open new thread for new hands. :)
      Sorry :p - it was just because the "topic" was the same.

      Originally posted by veriz

      Preflop: You could basically even raise it like $0,70.
      Note taken. But do you think they called 0.56 but could fold something to 0.70?

      Originally posted by veriz
      Postflop: While being in multiway pot we likely get only value from some draws, therefore I might even just Check behind and decided what my actions will be on turn.
      Check behind? I was OOP. If in position I might have checked behind indeed...

      The hilarious thing about this hand is the original raiser folded, and the cold callers called yet again...
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Note taken. But do you think they called 0.56 but could fold something to 0.70?

      Basically, why I did choose $0,70. Gonna talk about it. :D Because I expect them to Call anyways light and we are OOP I usually add 1x his raise when there are really that many limpers. And yes, we might get less limpers and wont give them odds for set mining or whatever they want to do. And while they are fishy enough then I even expect some of them to Call anyways. That's why I used 6 x $0,12 ~ $0,70.