[NL20-NL50] [SH] NL 50 88 OOP bluffcatch river spot

    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      saw flop

      UTG ($54.05)
      Button ($66.20)
      Hero (SB) ($50.25)
      BB ($30.65)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 8, 8
      UTG bets $1.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.25, 1 fold

      Flop: ($3.50) 2, 4, 6 (2 players)
      Hero checks, UTG bets $2.50, Hero calls $2.50

      Turn: ($8.50) A (2 players)
      Hero checks, UTG checks

      River: ($8.50) Q (2 players)
      Hero checks, UTG bets $7.50, Hero folds

      Total pot: $8.50 | Rake: $0.40


      Few hands on villain but looks like a decent TAG, also not too much history between us.

      If I don't really see him checking back an A on the turn should I be calling the river as I think I can assume he is going to have a lot of flush draws in his range? I folded because of his relative large bet size but I think this should be the reason.
  • 5 replies
    • purplefizz
      purplefizz
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2008 Posts: 4,508
      i agree that theres a lot of busted fd in his range.
      im discounting Ax after check back on turn, as well as most pp bec he would just want to go to showdown with them. QK is possible too, but wld he really bet so big with A out there? in case he is going for thin value then he probly bets Qx smaller to get call from worse hands.
      its ugly spot. i dont think folding is a big mistake esp vs unknown. but hero call wouldnt be super bad either if u can deal with higher variance.
    • StaticMoth
      StaticMoth
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.05.2009 Posts: 2,642
      Couple of extra thoughts (if he seems to be decent/thinking reg)

      1) I could see him checking back the turn if he has a nutFD to:

      a) if he has the nutFD(+TP@turn now) = you can't have almost anything, so it's
      kinda deception/"slowplay" to get paid off by weaker hands (such as yours) on the river or stack you if the flush hits and you happen to be on the FD yourself as well.

      b) you c/c flop - checked turn & river = you never have Ax, so he can indeed pot with Qx to get looked up by a hand such as yours.

      A decent player wouldn't pot the river as a bluff imo, since you showed uberweakness, so a measly 1/2 pot bet would work just as well coz you look like a busted draw yourself.


      Just my 2 cents =)
    • purplefizz
      purplefizz
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2008 Posts: 4,508
      i agree that he has completely discounted Ax fr your range as well. so Qx can really bet for value here. but he wants u to call which is why he might make the bet less scary looking indeed so mid pp can still call.
      if his hand is Ax, it shld be at least AJ+ (or ATs) since he raises utg. he cld be slowplaying that, sure but i think he misses value that way. i mean, he cbet flop alrdy. 2nd barrel makes more sense. wacha think?

      my two cents :D
    • StaticMoth
      StaticMoth
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.05.2009 Posts: 2,642
      Originally posted by purplefizz
      ... but he wants u to call which is why he might make the bet less scary looking indeed so mid pp can still call.
      I believe this is called polarizing, he either has it or he has nothing - if he bets 1/2 pot with those hands it screams for "valuebet". Potting/polarizing means he's either bluffing and made it big for max foldEQ or he disguises his value hand as a bluff to get called coz ... well it looks bluffy :f_biggrin:

      Originally posted by purplefizz

      if his hand is Ax, it shld be at least AJ+ (or ATs) since he raises utg. he cld be slowplaying that, sure but i think he misses value that way. i mean, he cbet flop alrdy. 2nd barrel makes more sense. wacha think?
      Well flop cbet is standard coz he has a shitload of EQ, but he doesn't actually have a hand yet.

      Turn, like I said, if he has the whole world on that board, ur opp really can't have much ... I mean he doesn't want to fold out weaker hands on that turn, he's mostly gonna get called there by two hands only.

      1) better ace
      2) FD

      Why I say better ace is that ... well yeah, he is UTG but in reality it's 4 handed, so it's basically CO and I imagine a decent reg would be opening a LOT wider there than his normal UTG range - any suited ace imo.

      Sure, you want to be building the pot if he puts his opp on FD, but since he himself already has the FD, it's more unlikely that the opp has it.

      So majority of the time he's gonna fold everything out and get no further value from anything.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      if players doesn´t barrel on scare card then more often they have showdown value and 88 doesn´t really beat too many hands if he bet so much on the river, so c/f is reasonable
      If you want to get value smt like 65s, 77 then you can always b/f yourself on the river half potsize for value