SB open steal

    • konkey
      konkey
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2009 Posts: 385
      I've been arguing with mate, he says over 20% ATS SB is too high and easily exploitable. And I think 20% is way too passive.
      What's your attempt to steal from SB? And why do you think it should be so? And how do you exploit big / small percentages?
  • 8 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      The number is meaningless, IMO.
      My decision to attmpt a steal depends almost entirely on the reaction from the people on my left, and much less on the cards.

      From the 3 stealing positions, my stats are:
      CO: 23.3
      BU: 36.5
      SB: 47.7

      This is according to PT3, but is HAS to be wrong -- I probably created the report wrong.
      My SB Pfr is 15.8, so the ATS would be somewhat less.
    • DocBrown112
      DocBrown112
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2009 Posts: 57
      I know this has been asked many times, but when you call it a steal, what kind of cards are you holding?

      BR
      DocBrown112
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      The number is meaningless, IMO.
      My decision to attmpt a steal depends almost entirely on the reaction from the people on my left, and much less on the cards.

      From the 3 stealing positions, my stats are:
      CO: 23.3
      BU: 36.5
      SB: 47.7

      This is according to PT3, but is HAS to be wrong -- I probably created the report wrong.
      My SB Pfr is 15.8, so the ATS would be somewhat less.
      INCORRECT...your SB PFR also includes the times players before you enter the pot and when they do so you can not steal. The ATS from SB stat is only when its been folded all the way around to the SB. For this reasson your ATS from SB stat should be similar to your ATS, possibley slightly less as you will be OOP after the flop. I think 30-40% is a good ATS stat, so i think like a 25-35% ATS from SB stat is good.

      Generally the tighter the BB the more hands you steal with. The looser the BB the tighter you steal. In the long run though you can expect to face all diffrent kinds of players resulting in the average of 30-40%. As vs nit your ATS is like 60% and vs station its like 10%?

      Hope that helps both of you to some extent?
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Originally posted by DocBrown112
      I know this has been asked many times, but when you call it a steal, what kind of cards are you holding?

      BR
      DocBrown112
      The cards are irrelevant, the term "steal" is a name given to a certain kind of bet. Just like the term "C-Bet" is a specific type of bet.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910

      INCORRECT...your SB PFR also includes the times players before you enter the pot and when they do so you can not steal. The ATS from SB stat is only when its been folded all the way around to the SB. For this reasson your ATS from SB stat should be similar to your ATS, possibley slightly less as you will be OOP after the flop. I think 30-40% is a good ATS stat, so i think like a 25-35% ATS from SB stat is good.
      If I understand you correctly -- that the 47.7 represents # of times I attempted to steal when given the opportunity -- it is likely correct, though it still seems a little high.

      --VS
    • konkey
      konkey
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2009 Posts: 385
      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      Originally posted by DocBrown112
      I know this has been asked many times, but when you call it a steal, what kind of cards are you holding?

      BR
      DocBrown112
      The cards are irrelevant, the term "steal" is a name given to a certain kind of bet. Just like the term "C-Bet" is a specific type of bet.
      Yes, and it is open raise when everyone before you folded - you are first to act
    • DocBrown112
      DocBrown112
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2009 Posts: 57
      Thanks for the replies, but it is not really what I am asking for.

      I know that the term "steal" means playing position and opponent - not cards, but John uses the term stealing tighter or lighter, which indicates to me that the cards matters a bit at least?

      Or am I totally wrong here?

      Is it pure position, with ATC raise when folded to?

      Basically what I am trying to get at, is whether you prefer cards with possibilities, like broadway, suited, connectors, gappers etc. or is 72o just as good?

      BR
      DocBrown112
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      Originally posted by DocBrown112
      Basically what I am trying to get at, is whether you prefer cards with possibilities, like broadway, suited, connectors, gappers etc. or is 72o just as good?
      I follow the Advanced Open Raising chart (more or less).
      Short version:
      Open raise from SB
      Standard: 22+, A2s+, ATo+, K9s+, KTo+, Q9s+, QTo+, J9s+, JTo+ with suited connectors 54+

      Again, depending on who is in the big blind I will get even looser than the "max" column. If I get too many 3bets on my steal attempts, I just find a better table.
      Note that the Advance Open Raise chart has the SB opening ranges somewhat tighter than from the BU, since if called you will be playing OOP.

      The idea is I'm looking for a fold. Note that if you just get called, a cbet usually gets the pot.

      This is at NL2, btw. I have no idea how the above would work at higher limits.

      --VS