My 2-7 single draw blog- Ibiza fund!!

    • dogma18
      dogma18
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 340
      Hello to everyone who is reading... i've decided to start this blog for two reasons. 1. to track my development at this game and 2. To let everyone have insight into what i think is the most profitable game online at this moment in time.

      Ok so you're probably thinking im just being silly but having played this game for only two months i find myself up almost $400. And i legitimately think this is not just a good run. Every time i sit at a table I'm confident my strategy will outplay most opponents and turn me a nice profit. Im an economics student and any extra income i make greatly helps :)

      Thats all im really gonna say for now. i'll be back posting a few cash game strategies that i use to turn profit including starting hands.. position and adjusting to opponents. hope u enjoyed reading and please comment if your thinking of trying this game out which i urge you to do. I'll help you with any questions u might have

      GL to evereyone
  • 41 replies
    • pokerprons
      pokerprons
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.09.2009 Posts: 418
      I'll definitely follow this blog. I used to play 2-7 freerolls a million years ago and they were super fun and I love the game, just dont play it any more :( I hope you will post some strategy content here, since I would love to learn a bit more. Untill next reading...

      cheers :)
    • dogma18
      dogma18
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 340
      I'm going to split my next few posts into Tournament play, Heads up sng play and Cash game play. Like in any poker the strategy you will use is very different in each. I'm going to start with tournaments.

      Pokerstars offers a $250 guarantee rebuy tourney of single draw 3 times per day and i admit that this is the best way to make money quick. In fact I've played around 15 of these., winning 2, coming second and third twice. It really is quite easy if you follow a few basic rules.

      Play tight early- its obvious, but so surprising when you see how people play at the start the mistakes they are making. There are a few players who have registered for the wrong tournament and begin open shoving every hand.

      The idea is that out of position you can only really play hands such as 9 low..that being 98642 for example. this or better should be played from any position with a 3x the BB raise. in fact if you get reraised be ready to put all your money in unless its a player you have seen to be showing down good hands.

      From early position i advise you just not to play drawing hands. even a one card draw to a 7 low is something you don't need to commit your stack on. position is VERY important in this game. 10 low can be played with in position and you should be reraising to protect it against drawing hands before the draw. whether to stack off with 10 low is player dependent but i don't advise going with any hand that has a 10, 9 and 8 as you'll often run into a lower 10.

      In position such as button or two places to the right you can open up and begin to play drawing hands. only play one card draws to 7 low, 8 low or a very good 9 such as 96332 drawing the 3. after the draw just check fold if you miss or bet 3/4 pot or raise if u hit an 8 or better. if you hit a 9 its best to just call.

      This post has got a bit long and maybe has a bit too much in it but i think I've covered opening hands in the beginning of tournament play. As the blinds become larger keeping the same tight strategy won't work but I'll cover this in the next post.

      GL to everyone
    • clsrtotilt
      clsrtotilt
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.05.2011 Posts: 40
      hi!
      First of all - good luck with your poker journey. I'm also playing 2-7, but most of the time - triple draw. Only sometimes single draw. Anyway, I hope I won't see you at my tables, when I'm playing single draw :)
    • konkey
      konkey
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2009 Posts: 385
      Think about this: which hand is better before draw? KQ752 or K7654?
    • dogma18
      dogma18
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 340
      @konkey i actually thought about this for quite a bit so good question. assuming KQ752 will draw 2 and K7654 will draw 1 then for K7654 to be a favourite it would on average have to draw to better than a Queen. therefore any 2,9,10,J which would give it sixteen outs. however for KQ752 to be favourite it would need to draw to a jack or better to be favourite so any 3,4,6,8,9,10,J...thats 28 minus 2 that is already in the other hand makes 26 outs after first draw to improve.....then it loses two outs with whatever card it draws making 24...also the risk of pairing increases as it draws although this is negated by the fact that it will win those times K7654 makes a straight so i think KQ752 is just about favourite but it is close...

      Anyway thats my thinking on it. what is the answer? :p
    • konkey
      konkey
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2009 Posts: 385
      Well, I did not mean to compare how do these two hands play against each other, but in general. Because when you have 7654x, you are basically drawing to 4 outs. (appx. 1/12 of cards). Only 2 will give you a good hand. 3 and 8 will make a straight and 97654 isnt very good. But with 752xx you have lots of opportunities. Firstly, if you will be against someone at least somewhat reasonable, you won't get that much credit because you drew 2 cards, and secondly, lets say you want 8 high. You have 3 4 6 8 - 16 cards from 47, and you need to draw two of those. That's (16/47)*(15/46) = 1/9, which is better. And also sometimes you can have better 9 high than others.

      Although I don't play 2-7 draw games regularly, imo this is the most crucial thing most people don't realise. You should really look for starting hands with 2 and 7, thus with no straight potential. Of course, this is more true in triple draw, but also in single draw.
    • pokerprons
      pokerprons
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.09.2009 Posts: 418
      Originally posted by konkey
      Well, I did not mean to compare how do these two hands play against each other, but in general. Because when you have 7654x, you are basically drawing to 4 outs. (appx. 1/12 of cards). Only 2 will give you a good hand. 3 and 8 will make a straight and 97654 isnt very good. But with 752xx you have lots of opportunities. Firstly, if you will be against someone at least somewhat reasonable, you won't get that much credit because you drew 2 cards, and secondly, lets say you want 8 high. You have 3 4 6 8 - 16 cards from 47, and you need to draw two of those. That's (16/47)*(15/46) = 1/9, which is better. And also sometimes you can have better 9 high than others.

      Although I don't play 2-7 draw games regularly, imo this is the most crucial thing most people don't realise. You should really look for starting hands with 2 and 7, thus with no straight potential. Of course, this is more true in triple draw, but also in single draw.
      Don't you mean 16 from 42? You must be playing against someone right?

      Edit: we dont know their cards so it still counts as 47?
    • dogma18
      dogma18
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 340
      Yeah what ur saying is vital for cash games...in fact it is better to play 2 card draws out of position than a one card draw simply because your opponent wont expect you to hit a big hand and so in checking to them they may value bet good 10's or 9's. although a good opponent may realise your only likely to call with better so it is really player dependent.
    • dogma18
      dogma18
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 340
      Ok i've tried my hand at triple draw over the last few days and things havent been going well so i reverted back to single draw...i guess i couldnt handle the variance in triple draw...its harder to use position as everyone will draw regardless of your raise so i've had to continually show down the best hand. As i tend to play loose it doesnt really work for me..

      Anyway im gonna talk about cash game starting hands. i find from early position(utg,+1,+2) on a 7-handed table i stick to pat 9's and good 7 draws. this is because any worse hands are hard to play especially if your facing a reraise. a pat 10 is weak when faced with a reraise as you're either ahead if he's drawing or behind if he has a better pat.. even after the draw you have shown weakness by just calling the reraise and so u must check/call hoping the one card draw hasnt hit. Its awkward to play so i usually just avoid it.

      One the button and to the right of it is where i play most of my hands...thats any pat jack or better and any draw to a 9 low. if it is raised with no additional callers i will reraise. If there is a caller they may as well told everyone they are drawing so i will reraise any pat 10 or better but fold a jack as it doesnt play well against two players who are drawing. If im drawing to a 9 low on the button and there is a raise and a call i will fold most of the time unless its something like 96653..its a decent draw. Avoid drawing hands such as 98633.. because if the seven hits you are usually behind a bet postdraw but will be tempted to call.

      Anyway position is where u will make your money. an example would be if UTG+1 raises to $1.50, blinds are 0.25/0.50..u have J8752 and its folded around to you. This is an excellent spot to raise. U raise to $4.50 and your opponent calls. Now two things can happen, he pats or he draws one. If he pats you draw, if he draws you pat. Its quite simple. Anyway most of the time he draws one. You stand pat. He checks, you check behind and he mucks something like 77642. Thats a pot of $9+ just because of your reraise. thats what i think separates the good players from average ones. Average players will just call pre and not get value from a hand they should be getting value from :)

      GL all ;)
    • konkey
      konkey
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2009 Posts: 385
      Originally posted by pokerprons
      Edit: we dont know their cards so it still counts as 47?
      Yes, you can get 47 different possible cards. But you have no idea what other players have or had.

      How many tables do you play when playing CG? and what limits on what site?
    • dogma18
      dogma18
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 340
      Do you ever have a session where u feel u really develop as a player..i ended my most recent session up $0.65 but i had learnt more than i think i ever have.

      It started with one opponent who i'll admit must have taken around $100 form me over the last month...2 buyins from one person isn't acceptable considering i only play for around 2 hours maybe 3 or 4 times a week. Ok so this opponent seemed to always value bet when i was behind or price me out of the call when he was behind. I found him so difficult post draw i often avoided even marginal spots against him which were profitable against most players.

      So the session began as usual and i opted to sit to his left thinking at least if i have position it would limit the damage. I was wrong. I never picked up a hand when he raised and he opted to steal when he was in the small blind every single time. I was sick of it and typed in the chat box 'you are torturing me' which got a few lols from the regs around the table. I knew i needed to change or this would always happen so i began to fight back.

      Its hard to do without a hand but i was looking for situations where i have an advantage and i found one which i was silly to miss if i think about it. He was raising every small blind if it was folded to him, basically giving me position in a raised pot, so i decided to completely open up against him in those spots. I found myself calling every two card draw even if it was to a 10 just because it was impossible for him to have it every time. In fact because i was drawing two he auto bet 4/5 of the pot after the draw. Obviously his aggression is hard to play against because i need a hand to call with and if i choose to bluff raise then there is a good chance he's made his hand anyway. I had to drastically change my game, loosen up against him to where i wasn't comfortable. Gradually though it was working, as i was calling more frequently, often where I'm behind most value bets, it was hard for him to continue betting into me without a decent hand. This slowed him down a lot and gave me a much easier time at the table.

      An example of 2 hands that were played are as follows:

      Hand 1...............................................

      Everyone folds
      Small blind raises to $1.50
      Big blind (me) calls with A8633

      small blind discards 1
      big blind discards 2 (A+3)

      post draw:
      I have KQ863

      Small blind bets $3.50
      I call

      Small blind shows 99872
      I collect the pot

      Hand 2...................................................

      everyone folds
      small blind raises to $1.50
      Big blind (me) reraises to $4.50 with QJT23

      small blind calls and discards 1
      I stand pat

      Post draw: small blind bets $4.50
      I reraise to $11

      Small blind folds....

      As you can see both plays against an average player are considered poor but with history against this particular player i'm confident both will work.

      Hand 1: My thinking is that because i discarded 2 his almost pot sized bet is usually never a value bet, If he honestly had a hand he would check the majority of his range to induce a steal from me. In fact the only hand he could possibly have which beats me is a king or queen himself hoping i fold a made jack. although this call is behind a lot of the time, because of the money in the pot already coupled with the fact my opponent is very aggressive means he will bet every time knowing i can only call with a 9 or better. A two card draw will rarely bring this so its profitable for him to do so. Me knowing that he knows its unlikely that i made my hand means i can call.

      Hand 2: Previously against this player i usually play very weak post draw and he knows this. I will reraise a lot of pat Q's and J's but fold to aggression post draw. This is generally quite effective against weak players as they will check to you if they miss or bet when they hit. In this hand i decide to represent the top of my range. He could in fact have complete air here but i'm thinking he probably had a good 10 or weak 9.

      Anyway as you can see adjustment to opponents is vital. He was bullying me for weeks and I'm not afraid to admit it, but i decided to fight back. There were lots of other hands these were just the stand out ones. But at least i have a strategy in place against this kind of player so that im not outplayed in future.

      GL to everyone
    • dogma18
      dogma18
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 340
      Ok its been a while since my last post...

      I havent played much in the last few days and what i have played im breakeven so not really anything to say.

      Im going to talk about opponents and the importance of noting tendencies when playing 2-7..

      Some players call too much, are very tight and only call when they have it. Others, pre draw play straightforward while others raise draws and play position.
      Its important in this game to recognise a players range so that u can make the most optimal decision with the hand you have.

      Im going to give two examples of how i adjust to different players. 1 very tight thinking player, the other a loose fish.

      Hand 1:

      Im in UTG+3 with 97652

      UTG+1 raises to $1.50 and its folded to me. Now im not really wanting to get involved with this player as his UTG range is so narrow that he either has a nut draw or a good pat hand, at worst a pat 10. However my hand is strong and so i MUST reraise for value if he is drawing or find out where i am if he has a pat hand.

      I reraise to $4.50 and everyone else folds. He then types in ''lol, again?'' before raising to $11.50. i Had been 3-betting him a lot, usually because i had been picking up hands like these or good draws. However he is a tight player and i dont think he's ever taking a stand here. What i would rather he done is call my raise to which i know im definitly ahead as he isnt tricky enough to trap his strong hands so he either has a worse 9 or 10 or a nut draw. His reraise is strong enough that i know he's ahead and although i could call with position. Im only really drawing to at most 8 outs assuming he has a good 8.

      I opt to fold and let him pick up the pot.

      Hand 2:

      UTG is a loose fish who has been stacking off very light. 2 hands before this he openshoved a pat 10 into a reg for $15 who called with a pat 9. he then reloaded for $30. he opens for an unusual raise of $2.50, 5x the big blind and its folded to me on the button. I know he's tilting and a fish on tilt is a great thing :)

      I pick up 107542. Its actually one of my favourite hands as it can draw good if my reraise is called by one of the blinds and he pats to which i draw, but also the 107 has good pat value. I choose to reraise to $7.50. Its a bit large but his openraise was large so i make it this big to build the pot as he's tilting.

      Both blinds fold which is good for me and UTG fish thinks and then shoves. Theres only one option here and i instacall. Now he stands pat which worries me a bit as he could have me beat however if he had such a strong hand he would raise less. he is a fish and a general rule is that fish overvalue hands. so 98762 may look strong to him when in fact its quite weak. His big raise suggests he just wants to win a pot or price out draws and his shove is anger that he gets reraised. i believe the only hand that has me beat is a stronger 106 but this is so unlikely that i choose to stand pat and he shows J9864 winning me a pot of $60.

      Its this adjustment that will in one hand save me money and the other where i can pick up huge pots just by looking at how players are playing and what they are doing.

      Good luck to everyone
    • Laggsy
      Laggsy
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.09.2010 Posts: 301
      OK this blog is so sick. Will definately subscribe. Ive been getting a bit bored of holdem lately so I would love to learn a new game.

      Teach me lots!!!!

      :)
    • konkey
      konkey
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2009 Posts: 385
      Wow, really nice plays.
      gl. crush it!
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      hey I will follow ur blog. getting a little interested in mixed games. mostly played stud games so far. dont u think the edge is smaller because there is not too much hand reading involved? (no cards exposed). THough i would agree that players are just terrible in general.
    • konkey
      konkey
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2009 Posts: 385
      Originally posted by mbml
      hey I will follow ur blog. getting a little interested in mixed games. mostly played stud games so far. dont u think the edge is smaller because there is not too much hand reading involved? (no cards exposed). THough i would agree that players are just terrible in general.
      I believe the players are way more terrible than you can imagine. Imo best way to learn and see how much they are is sit at 8-game or 10-game cash tables.

      I once played HU 10-game and when Badugi came, opp typed in chat something like "wtf 4 cards? no omaha???" At first I thought he's joking but he really played like he didn't know the rules. And when badugi ended, he typed "finally, lol"
      Later that session, it was 2-7 TD, i made him fold after 3rd draw and typed "bluff". He got super furious insulting me how I was dumb that I didn't know bluff didn't count when I didn't show it :s_confused: And then, he wanted me show how to bluff and he bet/raised and standed pat every single time next 6 hands. And ofc showed me his bluff when I folded twice.
      I was running really hot that session :s_biggrin:

      But I still don't play mixed games a lot. Only sometimes when I'm in strange mood.
    • dogma18
      dogma18
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 340
      Originally posted by mbml
      hey I will follow ur blog. getting a little interested in mixed games. mostly played stud games so far. dont u think the edge is smaller because there is not too much hand reading involved? (no cards exposed). THough i would agree that players are just terrible in general.

      I Guess the reason i got involved in 2-7 was because the skill level at holdem is so high that i found it difficult to move up...

      As for edge, yes no cards are exposed, but i make notes on every hand that is played to pick up information on what players level are..usually after 15 mins with them i can adjust to them and take advantage. You can usually tell who is better if a player is opening with bad draws.

      I suppose its easier online where u can look on mucked hands, live may be abit more of a problem
    • dogma18
      dogma18
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 340
      I seem to have hit a wall recently. Its not that I'm losing money, in fact I'm winning quite a bit. basically got my bankroll to $440 in the last 5 days and cashed out $240, leaving $200 to play with. That's the problem though, no uni exams, not really been out. I was out with friends on Monday but other than that I've put in a lot of hours and $240 over say about 12 hours play isn't great. That's $20 an hour and i ran really good at times.

      Struggling with motivation at the moment but I suppose tilt has gone......when i feel it coming my new strategy is to play 1 or 2 $2 NL holdem tourneys. In these i play reckless being really aggressive hoping to suck out on people. I shoved with 22 into a raised pot and made 4 to a flush which was nice.....Anyway I've looked at the 2-7 cash games and there rarely is anything above $0.50/$1 stakes except for the high stakes heads up players which i don't really want to play against.

      Its like i want to stop playing this game, even though I've won more than i ever have, because if i even reach a high level there will be no action anyway.

      On a positive note I've been getting more value of opponents recently. There are some players who will just never fold no matter how much i bet. good and bad.. I cant bluff(well be selective) but i get the max from everything. in fact if a weak player raises and then pats and i draw and make my hand i usually just over shove and they usually call with any 9 or 10. Problem hand earlier though:

      Was 3 handed.

      MR ''i overvalue every hand'' was in the big blind.

      Folded to me in small blind i have Q5234.

      I raise to $1.50

      BB raises to $7

      Now i usually don't draw out of position to such a large raise but we both had full stacks and the implied odds were good. Anyway i call and draw a 9, he pats.

      I think I've hit a miracle card. I mean this guy had been calling pot bets with Q low and even a pair of 4's. So, pot is $15, i over bet $30.50 he calls showing 86432. Silly me...

      Was down to $140 at one stage but a guy offered to play heads up and i stacked him a few times so up to $220 at the moment.

      Ok so in this post i have moaned about everything, then talked about my money won or lost when i should be focusing on my play. Ah well........

      GL at the tables..
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      Hi man, are you playing the 7-2SD MSOP event today on FTP? :)