Down to the last 3....3rd place every time!!!!!!! Help!!!

    • jason3000
      jason3000
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2008 Posts: 1
      Hello all-
      I need some advice....or just want to hear other good players opinions........heres my problem
      I keep melting down when it gets down to 4 handed and even more frustrating, 3 handed.....
      I mean its getting ridiculous how much money im missing out on by my inability to finish tournaments off. Im open to any/all advice here....
      First ill tell you a bit on my normal strategy when it gets real short handed and the blinds are pretty high...
      I go SUPER aggressive mode....which sometimes means ill just run away with the tourny when it gets short handed..but alot of the time, especially recently I lose a big pot that just murders my chip stack and now im toast.
      Are you guys in more favor of just hanging around and trying to survive to get heads up?
      What are you guys thinking when the tourny gets down to the last few players, HOW DO I FINISH THE TOURNY OFF!?!?!?!?!\
      any advice is welcome!
      thanks
  • 6 replies
    • Psyho
      Psyho
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.08.2007 Posts: 6
      I can tell you only how is it for low limits speed (when blinds are high when you finish - BB > 10% of stack).

      There are 2 main things reads and ICM.

      In general you have to exploit every weakness your opponents have.

      1) Many of the players have the problem with loose calling range compared to pushing ranges. If you feel that someone is weak player - it's better to assume this (thus you need a tighter pushing range).

      2) Try to experiment with pushing. If you push a lot, and then suddenly minraise then most people will put you on monster. You can this once or two with marginal hands. But do this only on button since, otherwise it will be perceived as a steal with weak hands.

      3) Trapping aggressive players is sometimess good option (i.e. completing SB showing weakness, knowing that BB will push with marginal hands).

      4) Sometimes it's better playing just playing completely safe. This is good when you have a midstack and there are 2 maniacs - this way you can have almost sure 2nd place. Remember that you can't outplay maniacs when blinds are high.

      5) The easiest opponents to outplay are loose passive - people who tend to limp many hands. It's great to have such guy on your right, so he completes to you. I usually take a route to bluff him a few times by minraising (it's easier if you can put him on specific range of hands that he limps with), and then he calls my bets with good hands. It's important to follow your usual betting pattern when you were bluffing him.

      6) People who are playing 1 table are observant. In general regulars/multi-tablers are playing schematic, and fishes try to do some fancy play. For example - if you raise everytime someone limps, then he will soon limp a monster.

      7) If you went to flop by freeplay, and you're bluffed raise and you don't have decent hand - fold. While it's easy in theory I was tempted many times to push a bluffer, just when suddenly he had a hand - don't make a mistake you want to exploit (in 5). The better solution is to just bet on PF if he completes to often. Even if he often calls you have the initiative.

      8) When someone won a big pot (especially by a marginal hand) he tends to play tighter in next few hands.

      9) Some opponents like to minraise instead of pushing. If this means that a guy is raising to much, a good option might be a call and bet almost any flop with 1/2 pot, or to slowplay if you actually hit something. But don't do this if someone is shortstacked. They will push your bet and you'll have hard decision what to do.

      10) When you are all 3 on the flop, and one of you is AI because he's shortstacked, the other guy will fold much more often (especially when there are no side pots) - he will never call if he didn't hit a decent hand. It's often good to bluff him, even if you have only ace high.

      11) If someones raises few hands in a row, and you didn't thought him as of a maniac, put him on a much tigher range. It also somewhat applies to you - don't push 3rd time in a row, when your hand is just above the pushing range.

      12) There's a lot of psychology in tempo of betting / raising / auto check-folding, and the tempo of your moves. At least one tell of major importance is that if someone uses check/fold a lot, that you have to respect his raises much more (since he decides before the hand what he will do with it, so he probably bluffs much less).

      Ok that was the few tips from - I hope that helps. As I said in other thread I have about 60% of 1st places when I get to top3, so I'm fairly confident in my play ITM :)

      Edit: I just watched Stoxtrader's video where he said that numbers on the numbers of the nick signalizes fishes :P
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      meh, just play cf ICM, and you'll be +$EV overall. i agree with maybe half of the points psyho brings up though
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      i don't think it's very easy. I would say: post hands, go watch coachings, and use the icm trainer. It's not only good to play icm, it's more important to get what it's about. Against players who call way to loose, you have to tighten up a bit more, and against tighter players, you have to loosen up more. Especially on the lower limits, icm isn't always the best line.
    • Psyho
      Psyho
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.08.2007 Posts: 6
      Originally posted by chenny8888
      meh, just play cf ICM, and you'll be +$EV overall. i agree with maybe half of the points psyho brings up though
      Could you tell me what you disagree with?

      ICM is far from the best option, especially in lower limits where people make lots mistakes. Sure it's +EV, but since calling range of them is usually looser. And as helemaalnicks said - it's more important to get what the ICM is about.
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      I disagree with:

      2) miniraising is always perceived as weakness, and gets calls, in my experience, since villains are too dumb to grasp your theory.

      5) I don't miniraise them. I play my own game, and ignore them completely. They are just dead money, so I don't adjust my pushing range a lot on these, except in any two cards occasions, and the knowledge that they limp-call pocketpairs/ace rags.

      9) I treat them as limpers, i push them pre, rather then post flop.


      and:

      what does this mean:
      Edit: I just watched Stoxtrader's video where he said that numbers on the numbers of the nick signalizes fishes Zunge raus
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      if it comes down to having to decipher their names to find out whether they're a fish or not, you're either:

      a. far too bad at poker.
      b. on too difficult a site (and there is NO too difficult site for sng)