dealing with prolific limpers NL5

    • bennisboy
      bennisboy
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      Joined: 11.04.2011 Posts: 711
      Seriously, I do not get it, today I have played against two of the most ridiculous opponents, VPIP PFR stats 100/0. So yeah you'd expect them to be easy money, but they seem to hit everytime, for instance, I 4-bet with AA, KK and AK, they always call, they never fold pre-flop, and 9 times out of 10 they were hitting 2 pairs, backdoor straights, absolutely everything almost every hand. I'm playing NL5, and one of the calls a 4-bet with 83o, I have AA on a 8 3 K rainbow board, and get my AA cracked, that's just one example, there was no way to put them on a range cos their range is having two cards in their hand.

      How the hell do you beat them? Or was I just incredibly unlucky that they hit every time? I mean putting in half your stack with aces or kings and getting called by any two cards, and losing every single time just should't happen.

      Every time I held a good hand, they called and hit. I even went all in on a low dry board with Aces and get called by a pair of 2s with a 5 kicker to see the 5 pair on the flop, had to quit cos i knew i was gonna tilt like fuck.

      How do you deal with them?

      Do you just get your money in good and hope for once that they haven't hit? I mean they call everything, so it's impossible to see where you are prior to showdown
  • 16 replies
    • bennisboy
      bennisboy
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      Joined: 11.04.2011 Posts: 711
      Also, I know I sound like I'm bitching, but I'm just frustrated and want to know how you guys deal with them.
    • ragney
      ragney
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      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      Variance, deal with it.

      Without variance, fishes won't play.
    • ejietdirst00
      ejietdirst00
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      Joined: 15.03.2011 Posts: 36
      ,, and 9 times out of 10 they were hitting 2 pairs,,

      Realy??U need to be happy to play against that kind of opponents :f_love:

      In a long run you will punish them :D
    • bennisboy
      bennisboy
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      Joined: 11.04.2011 Posts: 711
      Originally posted by ejietdirst00
      ,, and 9 times out of 10 they were hitting 2 pairs,,

      Realy??U need to be happy to play against that kind of opponents :f_love:

      In a long run you will punish them :D
      Yeah that's what I keep telling myself, but it has been happening all day and every time I was getting sucked out! I guess it just makes you feel you are doing something wrong when you go bust 3 times to them with premium hands! haha
    • bennisboy
      bennisboy
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      Joined: 11.04.2011 Posts: 711
      Originally posted by ragney
      Variance, deal with it.

      Without variance, fishes won't play.
      weeell that is just awesome advice, this site is lucky to have you dude
    • Jeffers16
      Jeffers16
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      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 304
      Originally posted by bennisboy
      Originally posted by ragney
      Variance, deal with it.

      Without variance, fishes won't play.
      weeell that is just awesome advice, this site is lucky to have you dude
      What were you really expected though...

      Its an issue that gets asked over and over.. and the answer is just variance. Nothing else to it.
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Originally posted by bennisboy
      How the hell do you beat them?
      Farha once said something to the effect of he can outplay a good player, but not a bad player. He needs a hand to beat a bad player.

      The answer is against an extremely loose-bad opponent you can only play for value.

      Originally posted by bennisboy
      I mean putting in half your stack with aces or kings and getting called by any two cards, and losing every single time just should't happen.
      It should happen with a certain frequency. Over a small sample size it might seem ridiculous, but keep getting large amounts of your stack in with the best hand and it will even out. Whining about it is likely to cause your game to deteriorate.

      Here, try out the coinflip simulator and observe the streaky nature of probability

      http://www2.whidbey.net/ohmsmath/webwork/javascript/cointoss.htm

      Fascinating huh?

      Run 1000 flips and see how many times you get heads or tails in a row at some point. Probability is both exceedingly simple and mind-bogglingly complex.
    • nardina
      nardina
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      Joined: 03.04.2011 Posts: 1
      Here is a slightly different advice:

      You are playing against calling stations - so you need a different approach.

      Bluffing a calling station obviously never works - but you are gonna make them pay you off with very bad hands since they call with anything. Here's what you can do:

      Play low ball poker - if you get a pig pocket pair either move all-in pre flop or limp with it. Do not commit yourself to the pot and go broke with these hands, if your opponent is betting too much into you feel free to fold these hands post-flop. Remember that if you make a big raise with AA and get more than 2 callers your hand is in serious risk.

      Play a lot more hands against them than you usually would - again, not much pre-flop action and be careful when you hit top pair. Generally speaking, try not to bet with only top pair on the flop but bet with it on the turn and river. This will make the opponent call with much weaker hands and you can also get away from it easily if something goes wrong.

      You should be playing suited aces, high suited connectors and PP against them - focus more on post flop play because when you do hit your hand they will pay you off (again - they call with anything).
    • bennisboy
      bennisboy
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      Joined: 11.04.2011 Posts: 711
      Originally posted by Jeffers16
      Originally posted by bennisboy
      Originally posted by ragney
      Variance, deal with it.

      Without variance, fishes won't play.
      weeell that is just awesome advice, this site is lucky to have you dude
      What were you really expected though...

      Its an issue that gets asked over and over.. and the answer is just variance. Nothing else to it.
      No, the answer to beating a calling station is not "variance", that is not helping anyone, that is merely what causes the bad beats. Other people have offered helpful advice and tactics on getting their money, saying "it's variance, deal with it" helps no one.

      This is the strategy discussion sub-forum, hence why I posted asking for help. I even said I appreciate it sounds like I'm moaning, but I just need help with it cos I was doubting my play against them.

      People have offered helpful advice, which I will try to use, people saying "variance" is not helpful.
    • ragney
      ragney
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      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      Easier translation:
      Play for long term. Play that kind of fish 10.000 times. Tell me how many times he flops two pairs instead of a small sample of a session.

      Variance is a cruel thing. I've lost 12 all-ins in a row on coinflips in a single weekend vs fishes, most of them were pocketpairs vs AQ+. Yet this is far away from the real variance.

      Oh ya just a small sample of variance: (6 stacks below EV, meaning lose 12x 50%/50% 100bb all-ins)
    • bennisboy
      bennisboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2011 Posts: 711
      See that's more helpful!

      I just figured I was playing super bad poker against them, and wanted to know if i should be switching style against them, which I have found out I probs should.

      It's just when you lose 2/3 stacks to them but still manage to be up on the day, it makes you think you must be doing something wrong against these guys
    • dochazard
      dochazard
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      Joined: 01.10.2008 Posts: 61
      Originally posted by nardina
      Here is a slightly different advice:

      You are playing against calling stations - so you need a different approach.

      Bluffing a calling station obviously never works - but you are gonna make them pay you off with very bad hands since they call with anything. Here's what you can do:

      Play low ball poker - if you get a pig pocket pair either move all-in pre flop or limp with it. Do not commit yourself to the pot and go broke with these hands, if your opponent is betting too much into you feel free to fold these hands post-flop. Remember that if you make a big raise with AA and get more than 2 callers your hand is in serious risk.

      Play a lot more hands against them than you usually would - again, not much pre-flop action and be careful when you hit top pair. Generally speaking, try not to bet with only top pair on the flop but bet with it on the turn and river. This will make the opponent call with much weaker hands and you can also get away from it easily if something goes wrong.

      You should be playing suited aces, high suited connectors and PP against them - focus more on post flop play because when you do hit your hand they will pay you off (again - they call with anything).

      THIS. Thank you. I have been looking for similar advice. Thread starter is right. We do know it is variance, and something to deal with. Appreciate the reminders about it, but learning of different lines of play are helpful as well.
    • roopopper
      roopopper
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      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      value bet relentlessly!!!! getting as much in as you can against a calling station when you have better hands is +ev!!!!!

      calling stations play crappy hands you need to exploit this with as many good hands as you can!!!!

      anyone with stats like that is playing any two cards open your range and shove when you hit!!!!

      Even when he is beating you 40% of the time that still leaves you with 60%!!!!!



      :s_biggrin:



      Roo
    • furculision
      furculision
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      Joined: 25.03.2011 Posts: 474
      Look at it this way.Would you rather FOLD AA,KK,QQ,AK pre-flop,than play them?
    • bennisboy
      bennisboy
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      Joined: 11.04.2011 Posts: 711
      well i came up against another one of these guys, took on board the advice here and cleaned him out 3 times :) .

      I basically did what he'd been doing, limped pre-flop with everything, if i missed i'd fold, if i hit i'd just keep betting. I got all his money one time with four of a kind when he shoved on the river with J high :/ think he was tilted by this point
    • clandestineAl
      clandestineAl
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      Joined: 14.06.2010 Posts: 569
      you always remember the times when things don't go to plan. all the times you take it down you forget about. it just seems worse when it's just happened