[NL2-NL10] NL5 rush ATs MP2

    • acceleration123
      acceleration123
      Gold
      Joined: 11.12.2010 Posts: 5,311
      Preflop - slightly loose, but I believe in rush still doable, but for me def a borderline iso here.

      Flop - I don´t know. On one side I have a pretty nice hand on that board and I have a lot of equity, but on the other hand I don´t think I have like any fold equity on that board. In general what we do on such flops - do we always cbet when we pick up some equity (draw, gutshot ...) even though flop is low and connected or can we check behind ? Probably getting it in with a lot of equity should be good even without a made hand. But also we could argue about the fact, that we don´t want to be bluffed out of our equity like being check raised on such kind of boards regularly. LOL quite a long thinking process for me :D . But yeah, I´d really like to hear an opinion about this.

      ----

      turn - probably a mistake, I don´t have the odds to call, cause I think I have to discount overs as the outs.

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.02/$0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      MP3:
      $6.22
      CO:
      $11.21
      BU:
      $5.44
      SB:
      $4.88
      BB:
      $9.38
      UTG1:
      $2.02
      UTG2:
      $6.11
      MP1:
      $2.33
      MP2 (Hero):
      $6.36


      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T, A.
      UTG1 calls $0.05, UTG2 folds, MP1 calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.30, 5 folds, UTG1 calls $0.25, MP1 folds.

      Flop: ($0.72) 4, 2, 6 (2 players)
      UTG1 checks, Hero checks.

      Turn: ($0.72) 2 (2 players)
      UTG1 bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50.

      River: ($1.72) J (2 players)
      UTG1 bets $1.22(All-In), Hero folds, UTG1 gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $1.72.
  • 7 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello acceleration123,

      Preflop: Why not to raise? The hand has a lot to hit, either straight, nutflush and even TP type of cards. Pretty standard raise I would raise which I don't even mind. In future you will anyways maybe even widen up your range, depending on the opponents.
      Flop: I'd actually still CBet such a flop, even if we are against somewhat smaller stack, just do the CBet a bit smaller as well, according to his stack.

      As played
      Turn: You ain't getting the correct implied odds anymore, you might be already pretty drawing dead vs a FH or whatsoever. Rather fold the hand.

      Best regards.
    • acceleration123
      acceleration123
      Gold
      Joined: 11.12.2010 Posts: 5,311
      Originally posted by veriz

      Preflop: Why not to raise? The hand has a lot to hit, either straight, nutflush and even TP type of cards. Pretty standard raise I would raise which I don't even mind. In future you will anyways maybe even widen up your range, depending on the opponents.
      There is one thing actually in my mind. Why should we open eg. hands like KQ from MP when we can´t expect eg. BU to call us with KJ if he is somewhat competent player ? Should he call at all, he is going to do that only with like hands that dominates us very often such as AQ, AK and not KJ, QJ ....



      Flop: I'd actually still CBet such a flop, even if we are against somewhat smaller stack, just do the CBet a bit smaller as well, according to his stack.
      Can you please answer my question I wrote above ? Why to cbet such boards when we can´t assume we have any fold equity at all ? I am really interested.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      There is one thing actually in my mind. Why should we open eg. hands like KQ from MP when we can´t expect eg. BU to call us with KJ if he is somewhat competent player ? Should he call at all, he is going to do that only with like hands that dominates us very often such as AQ, AK and not KJ, QJ ....

      The main thing is to let some smaller PPs pay us off and in long run we rather win money from them and of course there are still a lot of broadways/SCs which they may Call us as well against we are ahead.

      Can you please answer my question I wrote above ? Why to cbet such boards when we can´t assume we have any fold equity at all ? I am really interested.

      Why do you assume that we don't have any fold equity at all? There are still broadways/some SCs which may still fold and of course even Ax type of hands which might even beat us, AJ/AQ which they do sometimes Call us well this way.

      Plus the thing is as well that we gain a lot from the CBet, not only fold equity but as well we have great equity against his calling range, plus we as well make him maybe even Check the turn and get a free card and can easily ship the river if we do hit.
    • acceleration123
      acceleration123
      Gold
      Joined: 11.12.2010 Posts: 5,311
      Originally posted by veriz

      Why do you assume that we don't have any fold equity at all? There are still broadways/some SCs which may still fold and of course even Ax type of hands which might even beat us, AJ/AQ which they do sometimes Call us well this way.

      The thing is, I posted a hand into the czech community hand judging forum where I cbeted T96 rainbow flop and got few replies, esp from one judge who went like: "Oh, this is always -EV, you have no fold equity on that one, you should only cbet boards such as Axx, Kxx, Qxx where you have something to represent." So I am pretty much confused :f_confused:

      The hand itself:

      Known players:       
      MP2:
      $5,13
      Hero:
      $5,14

      0,02/0,05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.99 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is CO with A:spade: , Q:club:
      3 folds, MP2 calls $0,05, MP3 folds, Hero raises to $0,25, 3 folds, MP2 calls $0,20.

      Flop: ($0,57) T:heart: , 9:spade: , 6:diamond: (2 players)
      MP2 checks, Hero bets $0,35, MP2 calls $0,35.

      Turn: ($1,27) 4:club: (2 players)
      MP2 checks, Hero checks.

      River: ($1,27) J:club: (2 players)
      MP2 bets $0,5, Hero folds, MP2 gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $1,27
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      You can never say that it's -EV. How do you imagine this being -EV when you even don't know the opponent limping range? The opponent overall? Basically on such a board you might even have clean cards for our overcards plus you have backdoor draws. And even the equity ain't that bad against some random limping range.

      Board: T:heart: 9:spade: 6:diamond:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      UTG    61.01%  60.19%   0.82% { 88-22, AJs-A2s, KJs-K8s, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, 54s, 43s, AJo-A8o, KTo+, QTo+, JTo, T9o, 98o, 87o }
      UTG+1  38.99%  38.17%   0.82% { AsQc }

      So therefore I'd say it should be even +EV. :)
    • acceleration123
      acceleration123
      Gold
      Joined: 11.12.2010 Posts: 5,311
      Yep, not my idea ... but also, what hands are going to fold on such a board ? I can only imagine like some low suited aces, 22-44
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by acceleration123
      Yep, not my idea ... but also, what hands are going to fold on such a board ? I can only imagine like some low suited aces, 22-44
      But overall the T9x flop is way different than yours on flop. And basically I didn't say that I wouldn't Check behind on such board and often times I would even do that unless I see the opponent being rather tricky and might donk the turn when we Check behind but while we still might hold the best hand.