[NL2-NL10] NL4SH - flopped straight, turn pairs, call river?

    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      PartyGaming - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players

      BB: $4.19
      UTG: $4.00
      MP: $8.42
      Hero (CO): $4.53
      BTN: $8.65
      SB: $1.70

      SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

      Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has 5:spade: 6:spade:

      fold, MP raises to $0.08, Hero calls $0.08, fold, SB calls $0.06, fold

      Flop: ($0.28, 3 players) 4:club: 7:heart: 8:club:
      SB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $0.18, fold, MP calls $0.18

      Turn: ($0.64, 2 players) 8:spade:
      MP checks, Hero bets $0.40, MP raises to $0.80, Hero calls $0.40

      River: ($2.24, 2 players) Q:spade:
      MP bets $1.59, Hero calls $1.59

      Villain is 35/14, AF 5/4/2, WTSD 20 e W$SD 70 over 170 hands.
  • 6 replies
    • Dragar
      Dragar
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Yes I would call river... he can do this with trips
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello luizsilveira,

      Flop: I'd bet it even bigger here like $0,24 for the board being that draw-heavy.
      Turn: And as well would bet it bigger here like at least $0,50 and pretty close between 3betting and not. Although when he really is winning that many of his WTS then I guess I would rather go for a pot control as well.
      River: And still Call it as I Called it on turn and he may still have even some trips type of hands.

      Best regards.
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Yup, thanks guys. Indeed he could play 8x exactly like that.

      And thanks Veriz. I've been trying to work on my betsizing because it's usually wrong on the smaller side. I confess I do it so it's cheaper to cbet etc. then I don't know exactly how to vary for the bigger side without a bet size tell. I know I should do it according to board and I'm trying to work on that (in this particular case it makes no sense indeed to bet so small, almost half pot, so it might have been just a distraction coming from another table or so. E.g. with overpairs I'd def. bet much more there, at least 3/4, to charge the draws).

      Checking behind turn is out of question due to clubs draw, right?

      I'm glad he's fishy and just min-raises :) He'd make my life much more difficult if raised turn properly and bet bigger on river - even thought I'd probably not call river then...

      Say if he raises turn to 1.20, then pot on river is 3.04. Then say he bets between 2.80 and a shove (some 3.20?) after the club draw didn't hit. Def. not a call, right? Even though he *might* do that with 8x, honestly I don't think many 8x are on his MP opening range (come on, he's passive pre), unless and maybe A8s type of hands. And he wouldn't play that way overpairs AFTER the 8 hit and not before... so I don't think turning the straight into a bluff catcher would pay out... am I wrong?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Checking behind turn is out of question due to clubs draw, right?

      Nah, I don't like Checking behind the turn, rather bet it, while there are still a lot worse hands which may pay us, starting from 8x and of course FDs and so on.

      Say if he raises turn to 1.20, then pot on river is 3.04. Then say he bets between 2.80 and a shove (some 3.20?) after the club draw didn't hit. Def. not a call, right? Even though he *might* do that with 8x, honestly I don't think many 8x are on his MP opening range (come on, he's passive pre), unless and maybe A8s type of hands. And he wouldn't play that way overpairs AFTER the 8 hit and not before... so I don't think turning the straight into a bluff catcher would pay out... am I wrong?

      Yep, I don't think either that he would play this way his overpairs, rather would try to protect them. Although he might go for pot control with TP in this case on flop while he might be scared to bet and get raised. Although I don't really understand why he ain't even protection flop his set if he really has it. But when the raise would be bigger on turn then it gets much harder. Then basically I would even consider either to ship it directly on turn or maybe even sometimes make a crying fold if he really is passive opponent as you saying he is(although which doesn't seem to be according to his stats).

      But basically I would be more inclined to ship it on turn rather than Call and then fold on river if he really does raise bigger.

      Board: 4:club: 7:heart: 8:club:  8:spade:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      UTG    57.07%  57.07%   0.00% { 88-77, 44, A8s, 98s, 87s, A8o }
      UTG+1  42.93%  42.93%   0.00% { 6s5s }

      Here is the range if we are against somewhat nittier range and even here our equity is somewhat great.
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Cheers, Veriz. Great as always.

      I didn't say he was passive overall but he is rather passive pre - 35/14 is quite loose/passive for me at least. He is quite aggressive postflop (weirdly), especially on earlier streets. Which only makes more weird the way he played the hand.

      Anyway, he turned over 77. Why in hell he did not raise that flop beats me. Even cbetting there would be good for him, I might easily be suspicious of his check if I didn't hit and check behind club flush draws for example.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Worst flop for a set to slowplay and he still does. Likely not a really thinking player and slowplays a lot. Definitely note those kind of players down and especially the board which he did that. Sometimes I even do that when for example I review my hands in HEM and then I just make a longer note on the opponent. Even though it might be the chance that we don't see him again but there is still a chance that we will. :)